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<p><span style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Thanks for that Pedro, <br>
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Just a
</span><i style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">few comments. </i><span style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
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<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">All the best,</span><br>
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Christophe<br>
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<div id="x_x_x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>De :</b> Fis <fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es> de la part de Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es><br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> lundi 13 novembre 2017 14:30<br>
<b>À :</b> 'fis'<br>
<b>Objet :</b> [Fis] some notes </font>
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<div class="x_x_x_PlainText">Dear All,<br>
<br>
Herewith some notes on the exchanges of past weeks (sorry, I was away in <br>
bureaucratic tasks).<br>
<br>
1. Agents & Information. There were very good insights exchanged; <br>
probably both terms make a fertile marriage. Actually I have been <br>
writing about "informational entities" or "subjects" as <br>
receivers/builders of information but taking into account the other <br>
disciplines around, "agents" look as the most natural companion of <br>
information. The only thing I don't quite like is that they usually <br>
appear as abstract, disembodied communicative entities that do not need <br>
self-producing. Their communication is free from whatever life <br>
maintenance...<br>
<br>
<i>Yes, agents naturally go with information as they are the source of meaning <br>
generation, of sense making. Agents can be organic, human and artificial.<br>
(I look at agents as <span>identifyable entities submitted to internal <br>
constraints and capable of actions for the satisfaction of the constraints).</span><br>
Artificial agents can be looked at as disembodied but their being is <br>
derived from our human ones. So their self (if any) is part of the <br>
human designer's self.<br>
</i><br>
2. Eigenvectors of communication. Taking the motif from Loet, and <br>
continuing with the above, could we say that the life cycle itself <br>
establishes the eigenvectors of communication? It is intriguing that <br>
maintenance, persistence, self-propagation are the essential motives of <br>
communication for whatever life entities (from bacteria to ourselves). <br>
With the complexity increase there appear new, more sophisticated <br>
directions, but the basic ones probably remain intact. What could be <br>
these essential directions of communication?<br>
<br>
<p class="x_x_x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><i>Perhaps it could be interesting here to highlight that physics/chemistry <br>
and biology/psychology cannot address information the same way. <br>
Physics and chemistry use tools with precise definitions allowing to <br>
model our environment in a deterministic and predictable way <br>
(QM and Chaos deserving more investigations). <br>
Biology/psychology do not benefit of such rigorous mathematical <br>
support. We do not even know how to define life or consciousness, <br>
and our models are incomplete. <br>
So what about separating the two domains and looking at their relations<br>
as a third domain?<br>
1) Thermodynamics, entropy, quantity of information, channel capacity, <br>
data transmission.<br>
2) Meaning generation, biology and self-consciousness<br>
3) Emergence and locality of constraints, emergence of meanings<br>
This puts again the focus on meaning generation, a key evolutionary <br>
step without which we would not be here. <br>
Also, let's not forget that data transmission and quantification of <br>
information are about meaningful information.<br>
So why not consider internal constraint satisfaction, the source of <br>
meaning generation, as an essential direction of communication?</i></span></p>
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3. About logics in the pre-science, Joseph is quite right demanding that <br>
discussion to accompany principles or basic problems. Actually <br>
principles, rules, theories, etc. are interconnected or should be by a <br>
logic (or several logics?) in order to give validity and coherence to <br>
the different combinations of elements. For instance, in the <br>
biomolecular realm there is a fascinating interplay of activation and <br>
inhibition among the participating molecular partners (enzymes and <br>
proteins) as active elements. I am not aware that classical ideas from <br>
Jacob (La Logique du vivant) have been sufficiently continued; it is not <br>
about Crick's Central Dogma but about the logic of pathways, circuits, <br>
modules, etc. Probably both Torday and Ji have their own ideas about <br>
that-- I would be curious to hear from them.<br>
<br>
4. I loved Michel's response to Arturo's challenge. I think that the two <br>
"zeros" I mentioned days ago (the unsolved themes around the cycle and <br>
around the observer) imply both multidisciplinary thinking and <br>
philosophical speculation...<br>
<br>
Best wishes--Pedro<br>
<br>
-------------------------------------------------<br>
Pedro C. Marijuán<br>
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<br>
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud<br>
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)<br>
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0<br>
50009 Zaragoza, Spain<br>
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)<br>
pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es<br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" id="LPlnk877042" previewremoved="true">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
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The FIS initiative (Foundations of Information Science) started in 1994 with a first meeting in Madrid (organized by Michael Conrad and Pedro Marijuan), and was ...</div>
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