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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear Colleagues,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In all humility, I have asked why a non-standard
logic of processes might not transcend our specializations as part of the
'provisional solution'. I would still hope to get a response to my question in
this cosmic cycle . . .</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If we look at Terry's note of October 25, we can
see two concepts very relevant to the nature of information:</FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2> 1) <EM>degrees </EM>of normative displacement; 2) using
complex numbers. There is here, already, an implied non-standard logic. In his
<EM>Genetics and the Logic of Evolution</EM>, Kenneth Weiss writes: "If we think
of (biological) processes in terms of their logic, it is the interaction of the
entities that is the process and, in a sense, not the entities
themselves."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Building on this, I feel one needs to
change in general the standard language inherited from mathematics toward a
new language of process: not incessant oscillation but spiralling, starting and
stopping, and even reversing direction. One way, for example, to look at
process is as a 'meta-analysis' operating in reality! (Terry's<FONT
face=Arial size=2> last five lines go back from ontology to epsitemology, but
this is OK here. The proximity suggests the lack of total
separation.)</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Pedro, your use of zeros or absences as
'pre-science' is in my view absolutely part of the language/logic under
construction. But it is not necessary to fill them in until they are 'full',
finished and inert. Let us accept and value the process of filling,
incomplete and contradictory as it is, as essential. As I have said previously,
scientific rigor cannot be sacrificed in this 'process', but we must accept that
it may be more, not less, difficult to maintain.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Best wishes,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Joseph</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">Pedro C. Marijuan</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=loet@leydesdorff.net
href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">Loet Leydesdorff</A> ; <A
title=fis@listas.unizar.es href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">'fis'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 27, 2017 12:48
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fis] The two very important
operations of Infos</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
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size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
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size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix>Dear Loet and colleagues,<BR><BR>One of the
advantages of a new discipline is the simplification of discourse, the
creation of a new space where you can easily build new knowledge without
copious management of other unnecessary, circumstantial ideas. I have already
quoted in this list the famous quotation by Whitehead about the "mental
liberation" in arithmetic that implied the use of zero. Something similar may
happen nowadays concerning the wide reaching domains of information. But I see
two problems about delineating the "information zero". <BR>One, that life is
not incorporated yet as the starting point of communication (I do not mean
"biology"--rather it is each one's biography, historically and evolutionarily
augmented/contemplated). At the end, every living agent "communicates" with
other living agents, and the available tools to do that are signals that mean
"portions" of its own life-cycle. We humans have shared sensorimotor tools
that provide the common ground for our communication, for exporting those
missing portions or needs in our lives. Formalizing the life cycle is quite
problematic, however. <BR>And the second "zero" concerns the need to
constitute a new informational observer, endowed with the general mental
characteristics required for information science. The observer of physics,
chemistry, etc., is well equipped and we assume that his/her mind is properly
"charged" with the corresponding principles, theories, experiences, etc. But
in the case of info science, the topic matter is open-ended. What is the
"charge" of this new observer? Depending on our specializations, we equip this
observer with our preferred approach; so our unending back and forth. But many
other knowledge bodies (or at least the 4-5 basic disciplines that Xueshan was
commenting) may be needed to make sense of that particular
informational/communicational phenomenon in cells, organisms, people,
disciplines, enterprises, countries... If we accept this "ecumenical"
contemplation of information science, how can that multi-observer be viable at
all? Our cognitive limitations are so obvious... An elementary provisional
solution (a pre-zero, a pre-science tool) for making it possible was suggested
in those ten principles weeks ago. <BR>In any case, I think these two absences
or "zeroes" might be successfully filled in, without having to wait for too
long.<BR><BR>Best wishes--Pedro <BR><BR>El 26/10/2017 a las 20:08, Loet
Leydesdorff escribió:<BR></DIV>
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<DIV>Dear Terry and colleagues, </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite2
cite=CAOJbPRJB1BwNWhAPp_Ms2+m=PyiY=KDmqZA0HnSXcXwfp63RGA@mail.gmail.com
type="cite">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>(...) , there cannot be interminable regress of this displacement to
establish these norms. At some point normativity requires ontological
grounding where the grounded normative relation is the preservation of the
systemic physical properties that produce the norm-preserving
dynamic. </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>I have problems with the words
"ontological" and "physical" here, whereas I agree with the need of
grounding the normative. Among human beings, this grounding of subjective
normativity can be found in intersubjectivity. Whereas the subjective
remains<I> cogitans</I> (in doubt), the intersubjective can be
considered as<I> cogitatum</I> (the thing about which one remains in
doubt). </DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492>For Descartes this<I> cogitatum</I> is the
Other of the<I> Cogito.</I> The<I> Cogito</I> knows itself to be
incomplete, and to be distinguished from what transcends it, the
Transcendental or, in Descartes' terminology, God. (This is the ontological
proof of God's presence. Kant showed that this proof does not hold: God
cannot be proven to exist.) Husserl (1929) steps in on this point in the<I>
Cartesian Meditations</I>: the<I> cogitatum</I> which transcends us is
intersubjectivity. It is not physical. The physical is<I> res extensa</I>,
whereas this remains<I> res cogitans.</I> It cannot be retrieved, but one
has reflexive access to it.</DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492>Interestingly, this philosophy provides Luhmann's
point of departure. The intersubjective can be operationalized as
(interhuman) communication. The codes in the communication can relatively be
stabilized. One can use the metaphor of eigenvectors of a communication
matrix. They remain our constructs, but they guide the communication.
(Luhmann uses "eigenvalues", but that is a misunderstanding.) Using Parsons'
idea of symbolic generalization of the codes of communication, one can
continue this metaphor and consider other than the first eigenvector as
"functional differentiations" which enable the communication to process more
complexity. The model is derived from the <I>Trias Politica</I>: problems
can be solved in one of the branches or the other. The normativity of the
judiciary is different from the normativity of the legislative branch, but
they both ground the normativity that guides us.</DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492>The sciences are then a way of communication;
namely, scholarly communication about rationalized expectations. Scholarly
communication is different from, for example, political communication. An
agent ("consciousness" in Luhmann's terminology) recombines reflexively and
has to integrate because of one's contingency. The transcendental grounding
is in the communication; it remains uncertain. Fortunately, because this
implies that it can be reconstructed (by us albeit not as
individuals). </DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492>A non-human does not know oneself to be contingent.
Lots of things follow from this; for example, that the non-human does not
have access to our intersubjectivity as systems of expectations.</DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492>Best, </DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492>Loet</DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492>
<DIV id=x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New
Roman'">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=3>
</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Loet Leydesdorff <O:P
xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d">Professor emeritus, University of
Amsterdam<BR>Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)<O:P
xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><SPAN
style="COLOR: #44546a"><A title=mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net
href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">loet@leydesdorff.net </SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d">; </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #44546a"><A title=http://www.leydesdorff.net/
href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" moz-do-not-send="true"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> <BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Associate Faculty, </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #44546a"><A href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">SPRU,
</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">University of Sussex; <O:P
xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Guest Professor </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #44546a"><A href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Zhejiang
Univ.</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">, Hangzhou; Visiting
Professor, </SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #44546a"><A
href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html" moz-do-not-send="true"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">ISTIC, </SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Beijing;<O:P
xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Visiting Fellow, </SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #44546a"><A href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Birkbeck</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">, University of London; <O:P
xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"></O:P></SPAN></P><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #44546a; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><A
href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</A></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=x337b22579712426abf55c20f258d0a74><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #44546a; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><BR></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=x1f7a34362c89492><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite2
cite=CAOJbPRJB1BwNWhAPp_Ms2+m=PyiY=KDmqZA0HnSXcXwfp63RGA@mail.gmail.com
type="cite">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<FIELDSET class=mimeAttachmentHeader></FIELDSET> <BR><PRE wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<P><BR></P><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</A>
------------------------------------------------- </PRE>
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