<div dir="ltr">Christophe --<div><br></div><div>Regarding: <br></div><div>
<p class="gmail-p2">>Social institutions clearly have final causes (a long and complex list..) but associating agency and teleology to elementary particles may be problematic as it introduces final causes in a material universe. This looks close to an "intelligent design" option that we prefer to avoid. <br><span class="gmail-s1"></span></p>
<p class="gmail-p2">Final cause (teleology) is an issue separate from agency. I believe that in the context of the Big Bang theory, and given the constitutive low energy efficiency of all work, the Second Law of thermodynamics can be viewed as a final cause of all energy usage whatever. <br><span class="gmail-s1"></span></p>
<p class="gmail-p2">STAN <br><span class="gmail-s1"></span></p></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 8:59 AM, Christophe Menant <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Christophe.Menant@hotmail.fr" target="_blank">Christophe.Menant@hotmail.fr</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Dear Gordana, </span><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Your proposal for elementary particles and social institutions as two limit cases for agency is interesting as it also positions limit cases for normative/teleological
properties </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">highlighted as implicit parts of agency by Terry. And it brings in perspectives on your subject.<br>
Social institutions clearly have final causes (a long and complex list..) but associating agency and teleology to elementary particles may be problematic as it introduces final causes in a material universe. This looks close to an "intelligent design" option
that we prefer to avoid. <br>
Why not introduce a possible "trend to increasing complexity" (TIC) in our universe, with steps since the big bang: <br>
energy => elementary particles=> <wbr>atoms=>molecules=> life=>humans=>.... (perhaps pan-computationalism has a say there?). <br>
Agency and normative/teleological properties can then be looked at as emerging during the TIC at the molecules=>life transition (Terry's morphodynamics). <br>
Rather than being a limit case for agency, elementary particles are then part of the thread leading to teleology/agency via the TIC. <br>
How would you feel about such wording? <br>
Best <br>
Christophe</span></p>
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<div id="m_8279710921550298725divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>De :</b> Fis <<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>> de la part de Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic <<a href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdh.se" target="_blank">gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdh.se</a><wbr>><br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> vendredi 20 octobre 2017 11:02<br>
<b>À :</b> Terrence W. DEACON; 'Bob Logan'; <a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>; 'fis'<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [Fis] What is ³Agent²?</font>
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<div style="font-size:14px"><font face="Avenir">Dear Terry, Bob, Loet</font></div>
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<div style="font-size:14px"><font face="Avenir">Thank you for sharing those important thoughts about possible choices for the definition of agency.</font></div>
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<div style="font-size:14px"><font face="Avenir">I would like to add one more perspective that I find in Pedro’s article which makes a distinction between matter-energy aspects and informational aspects of the same physical reality. I believe that on the fundamental
level of information physics we have a good ND simplest example how those two entangled aspects can be formally framed.</font></div>
<div style="font-size:14px"><font face="Avenir">As far as I can tell, Terrys definition covers chemical and biological agency.</font></div>
<div style="font-size:14px"><font face="Avenir">Do we want to include apart from fundamental physics also full cognitive and social agency which are very much dominated by informational aspects (symbols and language)?</font></div>
<div style="font-size:14px"><font face="Avenir">Obviously there is no information without physical implementation, but when we think about epistemology and the ways we know the world, for us and other biological agents
<i>there is no physical interaction without informational aspects</i>.</font></div>
<div style="font-size:14px"><font face="Avenir">Can we somehow think in terms those two faces of agency?</font></div>
<div style="font-size:14px"><font face="Avenir">Without matter/energy nothing will happen, nothing can act in the world but that which happens and anyone registers it, has informational side to it.</font></div>
<div style="font-size:14px"><font face="Avenir">For human agency (given that matter/energy side is functioning) information is what to a high degree drives agency.</font></div>
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<div style="font-size:14px"><font face="Avenir">Do you think this would be a fruitful path to pursue, with “agency” of elementary particles and agency of social institutions as two limit cases?</font></div>
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<div style="font-size:14px"><font face="Avenir">All the best,</font></div>
<div style="font-size:14px"><font face="Avenir">Gordana</font></div>
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<div><font face="Avenir-Book" size="1">Gordana Dodig Crnkovic, Professor of Computer Science</font></div>
<div><font face="Avenir-Book" size="1">Department of Computer Science and Engineering</font></div>
<div><font face="Avenir-Book" size="1">Chalmers University of Technology </font></div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Fis <<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>> on behalf of Loet Leydesdorff <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Organization: </span>University of Amsterdam<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>"<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Friday, 20 October 2017 at 08:40<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>'Bob Logan' <<a href="mailto:logan@physics.utoronto.ca" target="_blank">logan@physics.utoronto.ca</a>>, 'fis' <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [Fis] What is “Agent”?<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_8279710921550298725__MailEndCompose">Dear Bob and colleagues, </a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I agree with the choice element. From a sociological perspective, agency is usually defined in relation to structure. For example, in terms of structure/actor contingencies. The structures provide the background that bind
us. Remarkably, Mark, we no longer define these communalities philosophically, but sociologically (e.g., Merton, 1942, about the institutional norms of science). An interesting extension is that we nowadays not only perceive communality is our biological origins
(as species), but also in terms of communicative layers that we construct and reproduce as inter-agency (interactions).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The relation with the information issue is not obvious. I worked on this a bit in the first half of the 90s:
</span></p>
<ul type="disc" style="margin-top:0in">
<li class="m_8279710921550298725MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span></span><a href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/jtsb93/index.htm" target="_blank"><span>"Structure"/"Action" Contingencies and the Model of Parallel Distributed Processing,
</span><span></span></a><span><i>Journal for the Theory of Social Behaviour</i> 23 (1993) 47-77.</span><span></span></li><li class="m_8279710921550298725MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span></span><a href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/jses95/jses95.pdf" target="_blank"><span>The Production of Probabilistic Entropy in Structure/Action Contingency Relations,
</span><span></span></a><span><i>Journal of Social and Evolutionary Systems</i> 18 (1995) 339-56.</span><span></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Best,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Loet</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="color:#44546a"> </span></span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d">Loet Leydesdorff
</span></span><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d">Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam<br>
Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span></span><a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" title="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt">loet@leydesdorff.net
</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d">;
</span></span><span></span><a href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1f497d"><br>
</span></span><span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">Associate Faculty,
</span></span><span></span><a href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:9.0pt">SPRU,
</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">University of Sussex;
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">Guest Professor
</span></span><span></span><a href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Zhejiang Univ.</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">, Hangzhou; Visiting Professor,
</span></span><span></span><a href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:9.0pt">ISTIC,
</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">Beijing;</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">Visiting Fellow,
</span></span><span></span><a href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Birkbeck</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;color:black">, University of London;
</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span></span><a href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en" target="_blank"><span><span style="font-size:9.0pt">http://scholar.google.com/<wbr>citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&<wbr>hl=en</span></span><span></span></a><span><span style="color:#44546a"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="color:#44546a"> </span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b>From:</b> Fis [<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">mailto:fis-bounces@listas.<wbr>unizar.es</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob Logan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 20, 2017 6:11 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Terrence W. DEACON <<a href="mailto:deacon@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">deacon@berkeley.edu</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> fis <<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] What is “Agent”?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Dear Terry and FIS friends - I agree with all that Terry has said about agency. I do wish to however to point out that an agent has choice and a non-agent has no choice. I would suggest that the defining characteristic
of an agent is choice and therefore an agent must be a living organism and all living organisms are agents. Agents/living organisms have choice or are capable of choice or agency and they are the only things that have choice or can interpret information. Abiotic
non-agents do not have information because they have no choice. We humans can have information about abiotic objects but those objects themselves do not have that information as they have no mind to be informed. That includes this email post, it is abiotic
an has no agency. It has information by virtue of you reading it because you are able to interpret the visual signs with which I have recorded my thoughts. Marshall McLuhan would add to my comments that “the user is the content” as well as saying that Shannon’s
work was not a theory of information but a "theory of transportation”. I think of Shannon’s work in a similar light. I also do not regard Shannon’s work as a theory of information but it is a theory of signals. Shannon himself said his theory was not about
meaning and I say what is information without meaning and that therefore Shannon only had a theory of signals. </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Another insight of McLuhan’s that of figure and ground is useful to understand why we have so many different definitions of information. McLuhan maintained that one could not understand a figure unless one understood
the ground in which it operates in. (McLuhan might have gotten this idea from his professor at Cambridge, I. A. Richards, who said that in order to communicate one needs to feedforward [he coined the term btw] the context of what one is communicating.) The
different definitions of information we have considered are a result of the different contexts in which the term information is used. We should also keep in mind that all words are metaphors and metaphor literally means to carry across, derived from the Greek
meta (literally ‘across') and phorein (literally 'to carry'). So the word information has been carried across from one domain or area of interest to another. It entered the English language as the noun associated with the verb 'to inform', i.e. to form the
mind. Here is an excerpt from my book <i>What Is Information? </i>(available for free at
<a href="http://demopublishing.com" target="_blank">demopublishing.com</a>):</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;line-height:150%"><b>"Origins of the Concept of Information - </b>We begin our historic survey of the development of the concept of information with its etymology. The English word information according to the Oxford
English Dictionary (OED) first appears in the written record in 1386 by Chaucer: 'Whanne Melibee hadde herd the grete skiles and resons of Dame Prudence, and hire wise informacions and techynges.' The word is derived from Latin through French by combining
the word inform meaning giving a form to the mind with the ending “ation” denoting a noun of action. This earliest definition refers to an item of training or molding of the mind.” This is why abiotic objects have no information as I claimed above because
they have no mind that can be informed.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">I hope that by informing you of the origin of the word information I have shed some light on our confusion about what is information and why we have so many definitions of it. It might even shed some light for that
matter as to what is an agent. Got the ticket? If so that makes me a ticket agent. I hope you get the joke. all the best - Bob</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Robert K. Logan</span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto </span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Fellow University of St. Michael's College</span></span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD</span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan" target="_blank">http://utoronto.academia.edu/<wbr>RobertKLogan</a></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-style-span"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications" target="_blank">www.researchgate.net/profile/<wbr>Robert_Logan5/publications</a></span></span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"><a href="https://www.physics.utoronto.ca/people/homepages/logan/" target="_blank">https://www.physics.utoronto.<wbr>ca/people/homepages/logan/</a></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On Oct 19, 2017, at 7:11 PM, Terrence W. DEACON <<a href="mailto:deacon@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">deacon@berkeley.edu</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">AUTONOMOUS AGENCY: The definition I propose for autonomous agency It is open to challenge. Of course, there are many ways that we use the term 'agent'
in more general and metaphoric ways. I am, however, interested in the more fundamental conception that these derived uses stem from. I do not claim that this definition is original, but rather that it is what we implicitly understand by the concept. So if
this is not your understanding I am open to suggestions for modification. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I should add that it has been a recent goal of my work to describe an empirically testable simplest model system that satisfies this definition.
Those of you who are familiar with my work will recognize that this is what I call an autogenic or teleodynamic system. In this context, however, it is only the adequacy of the definition that I am interested in exploring. As in many of the remarks of others
on this topic it is characterized by strange-loop recursivity, self-reference, and physicality. And it may be worth while describing how this concept is defined by e.g. Hofstadter, von Foerster, Luhmann, Moreno, Kauffman, Barad, and others, to be sure that
we have covered the critical features and haven't snuck in any "demons". In my definition, I have attempted to avoid any cryptic appeal to observers or unexamined teleological properties, because my purpose is instead to provide a constructive definition of
what these properties entail and why they are essential to a full conception of information.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">CENTRALITY OF NORMATIVE PROPERTIES: A critical factor when discussing agency is that it is typically defined with respect to "satisfaction conditions"
or "functions" or "goals" or other NORMATIVE properties. Normative properties are all implicitly teleological. They are irrelevant to chemistry and physics. The concept of an "artificial agent" may not require intrinsic teleology (e.g. consider thermostats
or guidance systems - often described as teleonomic systems) but the agentive properties of such artifacts are then implicitly parasitic on imposed teleology provided by some extrinsic agency. This is of course implicit also in the concepts of 'signal' and
'noise' which are central to most information concepts. These are not intrinsic properties of information, but are extrinsically imposed distinctions (e.g. noise as signal to the repair person). So I consider the analysis of agency and its implicit normativity
to be a fundamental issue to be resolved in our analysis of information. Though we can still bracket any consideration of agency from many analyses my simply assuming it (e.g. assumed users, interpreters, organisms and their functions, etc.), but this explicitly
leaves a critical defining criterion outside the analysis. In these cases, we should just be clear that in doing so we have imported unexplained boundary conditions into the analysis by fiat. Depending on the goal of the analysis (also a teleological factor)
this may be unimportant. But the nature and origin of agency and normativity remain foundational questions for any full theory of information. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Stanley N Salthe<span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:ssalthe@binghamton.edu" target="_blank">ssalthe@binghamton.edu</a><wbr>><span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Here is an interesting recent treatment of autonomy.</span></p>
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<p class="m_8279710921550298725m2661958331623774865gmail-p1" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Alvaro Moreno and Matteo Mossio: Biological Autonomy: A Philosophical</span></p>
<p class="m_8279710921550298725m2661958331623774865gmail-p1" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">and Theoretical Enquiry (History, Philosophy and Theory of the Life Sciences 12);</span></p>
<p class="m_8279710921550298725m2661958331623774865gmail-p1" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Springer, Dordrecht, 2015, xxxiv + 221 pp., $129 hbk, ISBN 978-94-017-9836-5</span></p>
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<p class="m_8279710921550298725m2661958331623774865gmail-p1" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">STAN</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Terrence W. DEACON<span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:deacon@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">deacon@berkeley.edu</a>><span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span>w<wbr>rote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">AN AUTONOMOUS AGENT IS A DYNAMICAL SYSTEM ORGANIZED TO BE CAPABLE OF INITIATING PHYSICAL WORK TO FURTHER PRESERVE THIS SAME CAPACITY IN THE CONTEXT
OF INCESSANT EXTRINSIC AND/OR INTRINSIC TENDENCIES FOR THIS SYSTEM CAPACITY TO DEGRADE. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">THIS ENTAILS A CAPACITY TO ORGANIZE WORK THAT IS SPECIFICALLY CONTRAGRADE TO THE FORM OF THIS DEGRADATIONAL INFLUENCE, AND THUS ENTAILS A CAPACITY
TO BE INFORMED BY THE EFFECTS OF THAT INFLUENCE WITH RESPECT TO THE AGENT’S CRITICAL ORGANIZATIONAL CONSTRAINTS.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 6:00 PM, Koichiro Matsuno<span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:CXQ02365@nifty.com" target="_blank">CXQ02365@nifty.com</a>><span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span>w<wbr>rote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">On 19 Oct 2017 at 6:42 AM, Alex Hankey wrote:</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">the actual subject has to be non-reducible and fundamental to our universe.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> <span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span>This view is also supported by Conway-Kochen’s free will theorem (2006). If (a big IF,
surely) we admit that our fellows can freely exercise their free will, it must be impossible to imagine that the atoms and molecules lack their share of the similar capacity. For our bodies eventually consist of those atoms and molecules.<span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> <span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span>Moreover, the exercise of free will on the part of the constituent atoms and molecules
could come to implement the centripetality of Bob Ulanowicz at long last under the guise of chemical affinity unless the case would have to forcibly be dismissed.</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> <span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span>This has been my second post this week.</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> <span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span>Koichiro Matsuno</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span>From:</span></b><span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"><span> </span></span><span>Fis [mailto:<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.<wbr>unizar.es</a>]<span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Alex Hankey<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, October 19, 2017 6:42 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span>Arthur Wist <<a href="mailto:arthur.wist@gmail.com" target="_blank">arthur.wist@gmail.com</a>>; FIS Webinar <<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Fis] What is “Agent”?</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">David Chalmers's analysis made it clear that if agents exist, then they are as fundamental to the universe as electrons or gravitational mass. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Certain kinds of physiological structure support 'agents' - those emphasized by complexity biology. But the actual subject has to be non-reducible
and fundamental to our universe. </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-<wbr>bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#888888">Professor Terrence W. Deacon<br>
University of California, Berkeley</span></p>
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______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">--<span class="m_8279710921550298725apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Professor Terrence W. Deacon<br>
University of California, Berkeley</span></p>
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