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<p>(Message from John Torday --Note: neither the list nor the server
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Asunto:
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<td>Re: [Fis] Verification of the Principle of Information
Science</td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Fecha: </th>
<td>Thu, 19 Oct 2017 06:45:07 -0700</td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">De: </th>
<td>JOHN TORDAY <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jtorday@ucla.edu"><jtorday@ucla.edu></a></td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Para: </th>
<td>Pedro C. Marijuan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"><pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es></a></td>
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<div><font size="4">Dear All, I feel like the beggar at the
banquet, having arrived at the FIS of late in response to
Pedro's invitation to participate, having reviewed our paper
on 'ambiguity' in Progress in Biolphyics and Molecular
Biology (see attached). In my deconvolution of evolution as
all of biology (Dobzhansky), I have reduced the problem to
the unicellular state as the arbiter of information and
communication, dictated by The First Principles of
Physiology- negative entropy, chemiosmosis </font>and
homeostasis. I arrived at that idea by following the process
of evolution as ontogeny and phylogeny backwards from its most
complex to its simplest state as a continuum, aided by the
concept that evolution is a series of pre-adaptations, or
exaptations or co-options. With that mind-set, the formation
of the first cell from lipids immersed in water generated
'ambiguity' by maintaining a negative entropic free energy
within itself in defiance of the external positive energy of
the physical environment, and the Second Law of
Thermodynamics. The iterative resolution of that ambiguous
state of being is what we refer to as evolution. For me,
information and communication are the keys, but they are not
co-equals. I say that because in reducing the question of
evolution to the single cell, I have been able to 'connect the
dots' between biology and physics, such elements of Quantum
Mechanics as non-localization and the Pauli Exclusion
Principle being the basis for pleiotropy, the distribution of
genetics throughout the organism, and The First Principles of
Physiology, respectively. So now, thinking about the continuum
from physics to biology, literally, the Big Bang generated the
magnitude and direction of both the Cosmos and subsequently
biology, i.e. life is a verb not a noun, a process, not a
thing. For these reasons I place communication hierarchically
'above' information. Moreover, this perspective offers answers
to the perennial questions as to how and why life is 'emergent
and contingent'. The emergence is due to the pleiotropic
property, the organism having the ability to retrieve
'historic' genetic traits for novel purposes. And the
contingence is on The First Principles of Physiology. So we
exist between the boundaries of both deterministic Principles
of Physiology and the Free Will conferred by homoestatic
control, offering a range of set-points that may/not evolve
when necessary, depending on the prevailing environmental
conditions.<br>
<br>
</div>
And by the way, this way of thinking plays into Pedro's comments
about the impact of such thinking on society because in
conceiving of the cell as the first Niche Construction (see
attached), all that I have said above plays out as the way in
which organisms interact with one another and with their
environment based on self-referential self-organization, which
is the basis for consciousness, all emanating from the Big Bang
as their point source. So with all due respect, Information is
the medium, but communication is in my opinion the message, not
the other way around. I see this as a potential way of organize
information in a contextually relevant way that is not
anthropocentric, but objective, approximating David Bohm's
'implicate order'. Ciao for now, I hope....John Torday<br>
<br>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Pedro
C. Marijuan <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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<p>Dear All,</p>
<p>After Xueshan clarion call, I partially change what I
was writing. Of course I have to thank him for his
support of the 10 principles. Actually, in connection
with the recent exchanges, particularly with Gordana's
and John (Torday) posts, I was working in some ideas
further related to the principles. On the one side the
general view on the "new kind of natural
science/philosophy" around information, and on the other
side the transcendentalism of life... I think they also
connect with Xueshan call of synthesis between info
disciplines in his last paragraph. Trying to be concise
I present herewith three points:<br>
</p>
First. "There is Life--and Information."<br>
Second. "We contemplate the World."<br>
Third. "The society around us."<br>
<br>
1. Life and Information: In biology, information is the
new mantra. All kinds of scientific-technological-<wbr>entrepreneurial
gurus have proclaimed it, based on the revolutionary
discoveries and gigantic bio-data accumulations. But
scientifically, few people are trying to accommodate a new
central theory of biology that could incorporate that new
empirical reality of amazing complexity. In my own
preliminary approach I describe how the simplest cells
confront "the information flows" of their environment and
couple them with the inner information flows related to
their self-production, always doing it adaptively.
Regarding the excellent work that John Torday has done on
the evolutionary organizational achievements of
multicellulars, as he mentioned, there are ample
possibilities of mutual connection... Everything is
rather preliminary but at least we can open the door so
that other people behind could do it better.<br>
In any case, around life and information, we see an
amazing world of molecular complexity in action that
contains some of the fundamentals of the new info
perspective. The living cell can really "perceive"
selected portions of the world around (information flow)
and regularly intercepts them by means of its sensory
apparatus (signaling system). Then it reacts adaptively,
modifying its processes and structures according to inner
stocks of permanent information (knowledge), sculpting a
life cycle, also communicating with other living cells,
and really building "molecular meaning" upon the received
signals. Besides, the pervasive horizontal gene transfer
in microbial ecosystems (phages, viruses, plasmids,
sex...) has generated a collective multi-species
assemblage or genuine "planetary library" of global
molecular knowledge. It is not bombastic, as all planetary
cycles of fundamental elements that sustain all present
life are based on trillions of molecular machines of
prokaryotes that have been churning around for eons. This
Molecular Internet of sorts (Sorin Sonea dixit) was the
beginning, and made possible so many things that now we
may call in so many ways: evolvability, autopoiesis,
agency, informational existence, ecological webs,
ecosphere, GAIA, etc. <br>
We may discuss quite legitimately about information
physics, but clarifying first the scientific discourse
about biological information by means of a new consistent
viewpoint looks a priority (at the same level, at least).<br>
<br>
2. Looking at the World: After the incredible
complexification of life, nervous systems, etc. we, the
improbable, the unexpected, are here. And like our humble
bacterial ancestors, we have to confront the world for our
individual living, and so we regularly contemplate and are
immersed into the quasi-infinite information flows of the
environment. But this time, by means of language, acting
both as our new social communication tool and as an
open-ended symbolic system, our collective capabilities of
relating with the world have boomed. And historically we
have developed those social repositories or stocks of
knowledge we call science and all kinds of accompanying
technological tools that allow us a new contemplation and
action onto the world around. Now we can sense the most
remote perceptions, we can colligate them with the
different disciplines, and produce adaptive (or non
adaptive) responses, with supposedly the final goal of
advancing our lives both individually and collectively.<br>
The new kind of science/philosophy to establish around
this informational "looking at the world" would demand a
new "observer", in this case starting from a
differentiated set of disciplinary principles of
observation. But that creates a lot of logic and
scientific difficulties. Recognizing the limitation of the
agent/observer is one of them; leaving open-ended the
observable is another. I am aware of the invincible
circularity that easily surrounds all of this. So the need
of a set of new principles sidestepping the worst problems
and allowing fresh new thought. Probably, the easiest part
would be the parallel realization of a new synthesis
incorporating a new stock of scientific concepts
(admittedly, most of them in the making yet); at least it
could start by a compendium of the numerous theories
around information already existing. At the end, a more
"natural" and efficient approach to our limitations in the
individual and social handling of "knowledge ecologies"
would also emerge... <br>
<br>
3. The Society Around: When we look at our societies, what
we see along history is that the biggest global changes
have always been induced or accompanied by substantial
changes in the information/communication flows around
individuals: writing, codices, printing press, books,
newspapers, new media, computers, internet, social
networks... Our societies have always been "information
societies." The current acceleration of artificial
information flows represents a challenge to the most
natural info flows (face to face conversation) so
ingrained in our social and psychological adaptation and
personal lives. Paradoxically, in the "information
society", mental health and wellbeing problems are
steadily mounting as public health problems (a terrible
escalation of depression and suicides), plus new
de-socialization pathologies that are emerging, including
the resurgence of nastiest political movements at a global
scale. We do not recognize the perils and pitfalls of that
intangible "social information" stuff, explosive like
nitroglycerine in social milieus when improperly or
maliciously handled. In many ways, the advancement of
social information science is tremendously important, and
I quite agree with the gist of the message just received
from Xueshan... we must have a specific session devoted to
it.<br>
<br>
Along coming weeks, we can progressively ascend along the
topics related with the principles, entering into biology,
and then to other territories, perhaps until finally
confronting the hottest social challenge... At least I
will periodically make suggestions in that sense.
Maintaining our usual chaoticity is not a bad thing
either--as usual navigating in between Scilla and
Charybdis.<br>
<br>
All the best<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
--Pedro<br>
<br>
<font size="+2"><br>
</font>
<pre class="m_-22988920610613545moz-signature" cols="72">--
------------------------------<wbr>-------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:+34%20976%2071%2035%2026" value="+34976713526" target="_blank">+34 976 71 3526</a> (& 6818)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-22988920610613545moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-22988920610613545moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/<wbr>pedrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------- </pre>
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