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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>Dear Michel,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>Thank you for your comment.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>In the draft version of my post, mentioning the last Nobel Prize award I have followed it by a remark: <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>“All FISers pretend to be Einstein; no one bothers himself with a (LIGO) detector building”.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>Then I decided that the phrase is unnecessary harsh and replaced it with the "citations from Aristotle, Plato, and others…” passage.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>You are right – the citations could be “a particular type of IF assumption”. Generally they can, but in this case – they are not!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>Loet has presented recently a much more elegant expression:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>"Nobody of us provide an operative framework and a single (just one!) empirical testable prevision able to assess "information".<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>Thank you for a concerned reading,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'>Emanuel.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>------------------------------------------------------- <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='color:windowtext'> Fis [mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michel Godron<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 08, 2017 12:07 AM<br><b>To:</b> fis@listas.unizar.es<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Principles of Information<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>The "<span style='font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"'>citations from Aristotle, Plato, Ortega, Leibnitz," are a particular type of IF </span>"<span style='font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"'> hypothetic assumptions". They cannot be falsifiable as the hypothesis of gravitional waves, but they may be discussed rationnally as starting points for principles and definitions of information. <br><br></span>Cordialement. M. Godron<span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>Le 06/10/2017 à 18:26, Emanuel Diamant a écrit :<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"'>Dear FISers,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"'>I have heartily welcomed Pedro’s initiative to work out some principles of information definition quest. But the upsetting discussion unrolled around the issue pushes me to restrain my support for the Pedro’s proposal. The problem (in my understanding) is that FIS discussants are violating the basic rule of any scientific discourse – the IF/THEN principle. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"'>We usually start our discourse with a hypothetic assumption (the IF part of an argument) which is affirmed later by a supporting evidence or by a prediction that holds under the given assumptions (the THEN part of the statement). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"'>The universality of this principle was vividly demonstrated by the recent Nobel Prize for Physics awarding – </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"'>A hundred years ago, Albert Einstein has predicted the existence of gravitational waves, but only the construction of the LIGO detector (implementing the if-then principles) made the observation of gravitational waves possible. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"'>Information will become visible and palpable only when an if-then grounded probe (or an if-then grounded approach) will be devised and put in use.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"'>Until then – long citations from Aristotle, Plato, Ortega, Leibnitz, alongside with extensive self-citations, will not help us to master the unavoidable if-then way of thinking.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"'>Sincerely yours,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"'>Emanuel. </span><o:p></o:p></p><pre>______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Fis mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>