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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Terry and FIS colleagues,<br>
I think you make a good point. I was reminded on the problems my
research group has found in the development of our "Sociotype
project", cooperating with social science groups and
psychologists. The lack of communication in between those closer
to formal fields or just within natural sciences (our case) and
the humanities and social science fields is amazing. From my point
of view they strongly defend some form of "obscurity", in the
sense that they do not accept but a total disciplinary autonomy
often ideologically rooted. Perhaps I am exaggerating, as the
intrinsic complexity of those matters is only amenable to
"foundations" from discoursive approaches... Well, in any case a
metaphorical idea about those principles of Information Science is
that they can work as "posts" where new electric lines may be
tended, so that they can bring new light to new pockets within
those ultracomplex realms. The gap between sceince-humanities
might be well crossed by info science.<br>
(Finally let me apologize for not having processed yet all the
late messages, I have a slow digestion)<br>
Best--Pedro<br>
<br>
El 05/10/2017 a las 19:21, Terrence W. DEACON escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAOJbPRL9aU=AQ7Of1=VTAgUnnmkcKTrPJuqrp-ThJ-h=fPaZSA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Dear all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am in agreement with Joseph's suggestion that our
discussions of the foundations of information could be
understood as pre-science. Efforts such as the list of
principles proposed by Pedro offer a useful focus of
discussion for working toward a more solid "foundation"
precisely because it helps elicits responses that exemplify
the fault lines in our community. These are not merely points
of disagreement but also theoretical boundaries that need to
be clearly identified if we want to seriously map this still
ambiguous conceptual territory. Claims that this issue has
been settled or that there are irresolvable issues involved or
that the whole conceptual territory is useless are unhelpful.
We just need to get explicit about our differences and what
motivates them.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 1:45 AM, Joseph
Brenner <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Dear
Pedro, Dear FISers,</font></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">In the 2
weeks I have been away, an excellent
discussion has self-organized as Pedro noted.
Any preliminary comments and criticisms of
Pedro’s 10 Principles I could make now can
refer to this. I would have said first that
Pedro is to be thanked for this construction.
Preparing a list of principles involves
defining not only the content but also the
number, order and relation between the
entries. Zou, Stan and Ted in particular have
recognized the existence of the list as such
and the work involved.</font></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">My own
view is that we are all currently involved in
reworking the Foundations of Information
Science. These Foundations are not themselves
science, but they look forward to the
increased understanding of Information Science
as Terry suggests. I propose the term
“Pre-Science” for this process activity, a pun
on the word ‘prescience’ whose normal
definition is foreknowledge or foresight. The
people who tend to make mistakes in this
effort will be those who claim that any simple
concept or set of concepts can do the job
itself, supported by claims to authorities
such as Peirce. Sets of <i>principles</i>, on
the other hand, are tools more difficult to
use but they permit directed consideration of
several perspectives at the same time.</font></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Principles
are the basis for an interpretation of what is
in the physical and biological processes that
are the proper subjects for non-computational
Information Science, without – yet – providing
any explanations. Now this is a lot more
philosophical that may have been expected when
the discussion started. However, today, unlike
when Pedro and his colleagues started out, we
have the Philosophy of Information of Luciano
Floridi and Wu Kun to work with, as well as my
logic. I am surprised that no-one has yet
referred to Floridi or Wu. </font></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Going back
over the postings to-date, I have noted a few
which seem constitutive of a ‘Pre-Science’ of
Information: Emmanuel’s ‘duality’, Stan’s
hierarchies; Michel Godron’s and John Torday’s
bridges to biology, Pedro’s reworking of
communication, <em>etc</em>. I will resist
comments that the concepts of Pre-Science are
to be thrown out as part of non-science or
‘just’ philosophy. As Koichiro clearly said on
20.09, information can, and in my view is
already, bringing in something new empirically
to questions of space and time. <span> </span>In
the Pre-Science of Information, ideally, it
should be possible to retain mechanism <i>and</i>
materialism or realism; computationalism <i>and
</i>non- or natural computationalism;
information as a physical <em>reality</em>
and a non-physical <em>appearance</em>.</font></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">I look
forward with great interest to the lines of
development of this thread.</font></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Best
wishes,</font></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:black"><font
size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Joseph</font></font></span></p>
</font></div>
<blockquote
style="PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;BORDER-LEFT:#000000
2px solid;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message
----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4;FONT:10pt arial"><b>From:</b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"
target="_blank">Pedro C. Marijuan</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="fis@listas.unizar.es"
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">'fis'</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Friday,
September 15, 2017 2:13 PM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> [Fis]
PRINCIPLES OF IS</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Dear FIS Colleagues,<br>
<br>
As promised herewith the "10 principles of information
science". A couple of previous comments may be in order.
<br>
First, what is in general the role of principles in
science? I was motivated by the unfinished work of
philosopher Ortega y Gasset, "The idea of principle in
Leibniz and the evolution of deductive theory"
(posthumously published in 1958). Our tentative
information science seems to be very different from
other sciences, rather multifarious in appearance and
concepts, and cavalierly moving from scale to scale.
What could be the specific role of principles herein?
Rather than opening homogeneous realms for conceptual
development, these information principles would appear
as a sort of "portals" that connect with essential
topics of other disciplines in the different
organization layers, but at the same time they should
try to be consistent with each other and provide a
coherent vision of the information world.<br>
And second, about organizing the present discussion, I
bet I was too optimistic with the commentators scheme.
In any case, for having a first glance on the whole
scheme, the opinions of philosophers would be very
interesting. In order to warm up the discussion, may I
ask John Collier, Joseph Brenner and Rafael Capurro to
send some initial comments / criticisms? Later on, if
the commentators idea flies, Koichiro Matsuno and
Wolfgang Hofkirchner would be very valuable voices to
put a perspectival end to this info principles
discussion (both attended the Madrid bygone FIS 1994
conference)... <br>
But this is FIS list, unpredictable in between the
frozen states and the chaotic states! So, everybody is
invited to get ahead at his own, with the only customary
limitation of two messages per week.<br>
<br>
Best wishes, have a good weekend --Pedro<br>
<br>
<p align="center"><font size="+2"><b>10 </b></font><font
size="+2"><b>PRINCIPLES OF INFORMATION SCIENCE</b></font></p>
<p>1. Information is information, neither matter nor
energy.</p>
<p>2. Information is comprehended into structures,
patterns, messages, or flows.</p>
<p>3. Information can be recognized, can be measured,
and can be processed (either computationally or
non-computationally).</p>
<p>4. Information flows are essential organizers of
life's self-production processes--anticipating,
shaping, and mixing up with the accompanying energy
flows.</p>
<p>5. Communication/information exchanges among adaptive
life-cycles underlie the complexity of biological
organizations at all scales.</p>
<p>6. It is symbolic language what conveys the essential
communication exchanges of the human species--and
constitutes the core of its "social nature." </p>
<p>7. Human information may be systematically converted
into efficient knowledge, by following the "knowledge
instinct" and further up by applying rigorous
methodologies.</p>
<p>8. Human cognitive limitations on knowledge
accumulation are partially overcome via the social
organization of "knowledge ecologies." <br>
</p>
<p>9. Knowledge circulates and recombines socially, in a
continuous actualization that involves "creative
destruction" of fields and disciplines: the
intellectual <i>Ars Magna.</i> <br>
</p>
<p>10. Information science proposes a new, radical
vision on the information and knowledge flows that
support individual lives, with profound consequences
for scientific-philosophical practice and for social
governance. <br>
</p>
<pre class="m_-6402337386677856722moz-signature" cols="72">--
------------------------------<wbr>-------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:+34%20976%2071%2035%2026" value="+34976713526" target="_blank">+34 976 71 3526</a> (& 6818)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-6402337386677856722moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-6402337386677856722moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/<wbr>pedrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------- </pre>
<p>
</p><hr>
______________________________<wbr>_________________
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</blockquote></div>
______________________________<wbr>_________________
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</blockquote></div>
<div>
</div>--
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Professor Terrence W. Deacon
University of California, Berkeley</div>
</div>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<p>
</p><pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------------------------- </pre></body></html>