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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear Gordana and Friends,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In 2002, the cybernetician Stephen Wolfram
published a massive book with the title, <EM>A New Kind of Science. </EM>For me,
it was not: it was an attempt to explain the simplest, quasi-non-living
structures of living systems by recourse to simple algorithms and a
multitude of formal logics whose meaning in relation to reality was largely
non-existent. It was deconstructed in a review in <EM>Science.</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We should not duplicate this error, and that is why
I was and still am put off by Arturo's introductory comment and in fact by all
attempts to explain the information and the world only by numbers and
equations.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regarding transdisciplinarity, I am sure that Sören
will agree that his Multiple Square diagram is only one part of one possible
transdisicplinary approach to information and other complex phenomena. The
founding of the active International Center for Transdisciplinary Research by
Lupasco, Nicolescu, Morin and Varela, among others in 1984 is of interest not
only historically. One of the 'pillars' (principles) of transdisciplinary in the
acceptation of Nicolescu is the Logic of the Included Third of Lupasco. In
my view view, only such a logic of processes is adequate "for the world and
reality in all its richness", since it is based on science and not on Peircean
reductive classifications.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I therefore welcome Gordana's double reference, in
the same highly significant short paragraph, to axioms and principles. Both can
be part of our <EM>Newer </EM>science. I will go farther and say that the axioms
of the Lupasco logic, which I have renamed Logic in Reality (LIR), fit in our
New Science or Pre-Science at Principle 4:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Avenir></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Avenir>4. Information flows are
essential organizers of life's self-production processes--anticipating, shaping,
and mixing up with the accompanying energy flows.<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O
/><O:P></O:P></FONT></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>LIR talks directly to the
"saw-tooth" evolution of such real processes, seeing their elements as
energy as well. I strongly suggest that Principle 4 can be
amended to read as follows:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Avenir>4. Information flows are
essential organizers of life's self-and hetero-production
processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the accompanying energy
flows. These processes follow a non-binary,
non-truth-functional logic.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Criticisms welcome.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Best wishes,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Joseph</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdh.se
href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdh.se">Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">Pedro C. Marijuan</A> ; <A
title=fis@listas.unizar.es
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 06, 2017 12:22 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> [Fis] TEN PRINCIPLES OF INFORMATION, FROM YET ANOTHER
PERSPECTIVE</DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Avenir size=3>Dear
Colleagues,<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
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size=2></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Avenir size=3>Following
this interesting and enlightening discussion I have got several thoughts that I
would like to share with you. First of all it is a great pleasure to read
variety of contributions, deep thoughts and insights, profound questions as
well. This list so very often brightens my thoughts on information.</FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Avenir size=3>I agree
with Arturo that what we have today is not a science (of information), I also
agree with Terry and Joseph that it might be rather seen as pre-science, and I
would also propose a further view that we might be working on <B>a <I>new kind
of science</I></B><I>. </I>It does not necessarily need to look exactly like the
old science(s). It might be a new, not only in the sense of exploration of
informational universe, but also because learning is interdisciplinary,
transdisciplinary and metadisciplinary, as we come from variety of backgrounds
and information is becoming central to all of them (Søren has written
extensively on the topic of transdisciplinarity in his Cybersemiotics
research).<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Avenir size=3><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Avenir
size=3>Information is a very complex phenomenon, as it stands for the world and
reality in all its richness – much more complex than matter-energy which is the
physical basis in which it is cast. It always depends on the receiver which is
as a rule implicit (like in Shannon and Kolmogorov-Chaitin information) but if
receiver is explicated as in cognitive computing, a whole new world opens of
relationships between the potential information of the world and perceived
meaningful information in a cognizing agent. <O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Avenir size=3>Complexity and transdisciplinarity
(interdisciplinarity) are two important features that must be kept in mind when
we embark on the project of <foundations of <information>
<science>> (I put brackets around the terms that are not used as in
common speech.) It is a huge project, unfinished, but truly important. That is
why it is so attractive too. It reminds of old days Natural Philosophy, but this
time with philosophy of human and other living beings and
cognitive artefacts integrated into it. There is a strong need of
philosophical perspective in this New Kind of Science, or New Kind of Natural
Philosophy. This time we will not stop at physics, which provides basic building
blocks for informational organization, but follow formation of increasingly more
complex structures, morphologies and their mutual interactions – processes
unfolding and enabling information to act in the world. There is a journal
Philosophies <A style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"
href="http://www.mdpi.com/journal/philosophies">http://www.mdpi.com/journal/philosophies</A>
with this ambition to build a new Natural Philosophy much broader than one
Newton is representative of.<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Avenir size=3>That was
about the research project, the need to endure even though we are far from
finished with <B>disciplinary, inter-disciplinary, transdisciplinary,
meta-disciplinary</B> explorations. Mark Burgin and I presented for this year’s
is4si summit a Prolegomena to Information Taxonomy. It is just the very first
attempt to position different pieces of knowledge into a common network. There
is a lot of space for all knowledge we have and even more for knowledge we are
going to acquire. Awareness of the legitimacy and <B>necessity</B> of different
views of the complex phenomenon of information is refreshing and liberating.
There is a lot of work to be done in the near future. We have an organisation
dedicated to this project, <A
href="http://www.is4si.org">http://www.is4si.org</A> <A
href="http://is4si-2017.org/is4si-organisation">http://is4si-2017.org/is4si-organisation</A>
<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Avenir size=3>Now about
ten propositions, "<B>10 principles of information science</B>" put forward by
Pedro.<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Avenir size=3>Given the
above complex picture of the present day research within
<<information><science>> how can a finite number of principles
be used? Put differently: can any axiomatic system after Gödel’s theorems
be taken seriously?</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Avenir size=3>Well,
obviously, yes! We have varieties of axiomatic frameworks today that are
absolutely central for organisation of knowledge within different fields –
logic, mathematics, parts of computing, parts of physics. Think Euclidean
geometry. We know much more today and still its beauty and usefulness
persists.<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Avenir size=3>It does
not mean that the framework of 10 axioms will exhaust all that can be known
about information, but it can help us as community to relate to it, and to each
other. The better set of axioms, the more we can accommodate of our present
and future knowledge within it. Now I am tempted to comment from my
specific point of view on Pedro’s proposed 10 Points, and how the list might be
made different – I will resist. Many excellent comments already made in that
direction have been enlightening.</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Avenir size=3>In short:
we have a job to do as community and we will not give up only because the job is
right now unfinished. Perhaps as nature itself, it will always be incomplete
(Terry’s book), but we can produce pretty nice pieces of common knowledge even
within finite frameworks. The emphasis is on common.<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Avenir size=3>All the
best,<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Avenir
size=3>Gordana<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Avenir Book'"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Avenir Book'"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Avenir Book'"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><FONT
face=Avenir><B>TEN PRINCIPLES OF INFORMATION SCIENCE proposed by
Pedro</B><O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><FONT
face=Avenir>1. Information is information, neither matter nor
energy.<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><FONT
face=Avenir>2. Information is comprehended into structures, patterns, messages,
or flows.<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><FONT
face=Avenir>3. Information can be recognized, can be measured, and can be
processed (either computationally or non-computationally).<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><FONT
face=Avenir>4. Information flows are essential organizers of life's
self-production processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the
accompanying energy flows.<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><FONT
face=Avenir>5. Communication/information exchanges among adaptive life cycles
underlie the complexity of biological organizations at all
scales.<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><FONT
face=Avenir>6. It is symbolic language what conveys the essential communication
exchanges of the human species--and constitutes the core of its "social
nature."<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><FONT
face=Avenir>7. Human information may be systematically converted into efficient
knowledge, by following the "knowledge instinct" and further up by applying
rigorous methodologies.<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><FONT
face=Avenir>8. Human cognitive limitations on knowledge accumulation are
partially overcome via the social organization of "knowledge
ecologies."<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><FONT
face=Avenir>9. Knowledge circulates and recombines socially, in a continuous
actualization that involves "creative destruction" of fields and disciplines:
the intellectual<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>Ars
Magna.</I><SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><FONT
face=Avenir>10. Information science proposes a new, radical vision on the
information and knowledge flows that support individual lives, with profound
consequences for scientific-philosophical practice and for social
governance.<O:P></O:P></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </P><!--EndFragment--></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0)">
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><FONT
face=Avenir>______________________________________________</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: -webkit-standard">
<DIV><FONT face=Avenir-Book size=2>Gordana Dodig Crnkovic, Professor of Computer
Science</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Avenir-Book size=2>Department of Computer Science and
Engineering</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Avenir-Book size=2>Chalmers University of
Technology </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Avenir-Book size=2>School of Innovation, Design and Engineering,
Mälardalen University</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Avenir-Book size=2><A style="COLOR: purple"
href="http://www.mrtc.mdh.se/~gdc">http://www.mrtc.mdh.se/~gdc</A>/</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Avenir-Book size=2>General Chair of is4si summit
2017</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Avenir-Book size=2><A
href="http://is4si-2017.org/">http://is4si-2017.org</A> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Avenir-Book size=2><BR></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV><!--EndFragment--></DIV><!--EndFragment-->
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><!--EndFragment--><!--EndFragment--><!--EndFragment--><!--EndFragment--></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: -webkit-standard"><FONT face=Avenir
size=2></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><BR></DIV><SPAN
id=OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; COLOR: black; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri; TEXT-ALIGN: left"><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From: </SPAN>Fis <<A
href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</A>>
on behalf of "Pedro C. Marijuan" <<A
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</A>><BR><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Date: </SPAN>Thursday, 5 October 2017 at
14:33<BR><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: </SPAN>"<A
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</A>" <<A
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</A>><BR><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: </SPAN>Re: [Fis] Fwd: Re[2]:
Heretic<BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix>Dear FIS Colleagues,<BR>
<P>There is no problem with heretics in this list. They are very welcome as they
make us think on our favorite ideas in a different way or even from an opposed
angle. We must always maintain the scholarly tone, that's the only condition!
(well, apart from the "two messages per week" sacred rule)... From the many
--exciting-- recent exchanges, let me pick from Lars: <I>"assuming that
Information is a property, an entity is not necessary. We can proceed with
scientific research, using any information concept we think useful, without
assuming it refers to anything."</I> Something similar but perhaps less clearly
formulated was in my proposal of the indefinability of information and the
reference to notions such as "propagating influence" and "distinction on the
adjacent."</P>
<P>Therefore I friendly disagree with Yixin below: <I>"</I><I>the definition of
information is the real foundation of information science</I><I>"</I>, although
I acknowledge the value and interest of his whole approach from the background
of formal/computational approaches to our problem/field. Somehow, defining
information universally is like looking for the "red herring", but it doesn't
mean that we must condemn the term to obscurity. We can develop the foundations
of information science without that definition, and indeed the advancement
during last ten years has been promising. <BR></P>
<P>My personal strategy, beyond the 10 public points I formulated, consists on
theoretical/empirical work about "informational entities". Those entities, the
existence of which depends on a special relationship with the environment, are
able to continuously distinguish - say - energy flows from information flows,
intertwining both kinds of flows with their own survival and maintenance
processes. An excellent parallel can be made with Harold Morowitz on the energy
flow and Geoffrey West on scaling entities. The former for the micro-perspective
(& ecological perspective) and the latter for the macro-perspective on the
organizational dynamics of cells, organisms, enterprises, cities... </P>
<P>The closest realm we can consider, and acknowledge almost completely at the
molecular scale, is the living cell. That's the most strategic theater where we
can define a series of essential concepts: first the information flow, then the
signaling system, the life cycle, the cell-cell communication, the complexity
growth, etc. etc. This was the origins of the genuine existential openness to
tiny informational signals from the environment. I bet that there is something
fundamental to learn about this bio-informational way of existence that can be
usefully carried on to physical quarters and also to the social. There is a
common informational philosophy of organization, e.g. reminding Joseph Brenner's
LIR, that at the time being we don't recognize basically for two reasons: first
the dogmas around the reductionist physical approach (the imperialism of
physics), and second the relative poverty of theoretical biology (the
Darwinian organizational blindness)... Anyhow , in a few weeks I will publish a
rather complete description of the prokaryotic information flow. I hope it will
stimulate reflections from other FIS parties. As I have often cited Michael
Conrad in this list: <I>"when we look at a biological system, we are looking at
the face of the underlying physics of the
universe".</I><BR></P>Best--Pedro<BR> <FONT size=+2><BR></FONT><BR>El
05/10/2017 a las 12:03, 钟义信 escribió:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:20171005100309.86D4F19F3A4@mx1.bupt.edu.cn
type="cite">Dear friends,<BR><BR>The debate on the definition of information
is of significance because the definition of information is the real
foundation of information science. It is noticed that many contravercies in
information science either in the past or at present time are more or less
related to the different understandings of the concept of
information.<BR><BR>It is not difficult to accept that there are two concepts
of information, related and also different to each other. The first one is the
information presented by the objects existed in environment<U><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000> before the subject's
perceiving</FONT></FONT></U> and the second one is the information
<U>perceived and understood by the subject.</U> The first one can be termed
the object information and the second one the perceived information. The
latter is perceived by the subject from the former.<BR><BR>The object
information is just the object's "state of the object and the pattern with
which the state varyies". <U>No meaning and no utility at the
stage</U>.<BR><BR>The perceived information is the information, perceive by
the subject from the object information. So, it should have the form component
of the object (syntactic information), the meaning component of the object
(semantic information), and the utility component of the object with respect
to the subject's goal (pragmatic information). <U>Only at this stage, the
"meaning" comes out</U>.<BR><BR>What is new, we discovered that <FONT
color=#ff0000>the meaning (semantic information) is the 'function' of the
union of the syntactic information and the pragmatic information.</FONT> This
can be understood as the definition of the meaning/semantic information and
the relation among them. In othr words, <FONT color=#ff0000>"meaning (semantic
information)" cannot be understood arbitrarily.<BR></FONT><BR>Comments are
welcome.<BR><BR>
<DIV id=signEditor>--<BR>
<P>Prof. Y. X. Zhong （钟义信）</P>
<P>Center for Intelligence Science Research</P>
<P>University of Posts & Telecommunications</P>
<P>Beijing 100876,
China</P></DIV><!-- begin sanitized html --><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV>----- 回复邮件 -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>发信人:</B>Lars-Göran
Johansson<A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:Lars-Goran.Johansson@filosofi.uu.se"><Lars-Goran.Johansson@filosofi.uu.se></A></DIV>
<DIV><B>收信人:</B>foundationsofinformationscienceinformationscience <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></A></DIV>
<DIV><B>时间:</B>2017年10月05日 16时45分39秒</DIV>
<DIV><B>主题:</B>Re: [Fis] Fwd: Re[2]: Heretic</DIV></DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0mm; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0mm; MARGIN: 5pt 0mm 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0mm; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><BR>
<DIV class=bodyclass>
<DIV class=""
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">Dear
all
<DIV class="">It seems to me that the heat in the debate about the
definition of the concept of Information is fuelled by deep metaphysical
feelings: different people have different views about what is REALLY
Information. Metaphysical debates can never be resolved. May I suggest that
we agree on this: there are several different concepts, such as Shannon
Information, Semantic Information, etc.. Each Information concept has its
own distinct definition and each one may use whichever he/she finds
useful.</DIV>
<DIV class=""><BR class=""></DIV>
<DIV class="">Whether any of these concepts refers to any real thing,
INFORMATION, cannot be determined by any empirical research. The reason is
that empirical research can sometimes decide the truth of a sentence, but
never whether the predicate in that sentence refers to anything.
<DIV class="">Suppose we have found, empirically, that a sentence of the
form ’ X is information’ where ’information’ has a clear definition. (Chose
anyone you like.) The truth of this sentence entails that the object
referred to by ’X’ must exist; this is a truth condition for any declarative
sentence. But it does not follow that the predicate ’Information' refers to
something. It suffice that the object X belongs to the extension of the
predicate. This is the nominalist position.</DIV>
<DIV class="">Since 1000 years the core debate in metaphysics has been
whether there are universals, i.e., properties and relations. The debate
about<I class="">Information</I> is a debate about the existence of a
property.</DIV>
<DIV class="">I am an empiricist and nominalist, accepting Occam’s razor:
one should not assume more entities than necessary. And assuming that
Information is a property, an entithy, is not necessary. We can proceed with
scientific research, using any information concept we think useful, without
assuming it refers to anything. Metaphysical issues can safely be put to
rest.</DIV>
<DIV class=""><BR class=""></DIV>
<DIV class="">Lars-Göran Johansson</DIV>
<DIV class=""><BR
class=""></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</A><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</A>
------------------------------------------------- </PRE></DIV></DIV></SPAN>
<P>
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