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<p>Dear colleagues, I think the exchange below may be of general
interest for the list (I had not received the message at the
bottom--Pedro<br>
</p>
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<td>Re: [Fis] planckian information</td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Fecha: </th>
<td>Fri, 21 Apr 2017 08:08:19 +0530</td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">De: </th>
<td>Alex Hankey <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alexhankey@gmail.com"><alexhankey@gmail.com></a></td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Para: </th>
<td>Sungchul Ji <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sji@pharmacy.rutgers.edu"><sji@pharmacy.rutgers.edu></a></td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">CC: </th>
<td>Pedro C. Marijuan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"><pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es></a></td>
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<div dir="ltr">Dear Sungchul,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Your point is well taken, but it only applies to digital
information. </div>
<div>The information states that I have discovered for
Experience Information </div>
<div>do not work on digital information, which requires a
physical system at stability,</div>
<div>obeying the usual laws of quantum theory. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Experience information is sited at critical instabilities,
which are identified as </div>
<div>the Loci of Control of all biological systems by complexity
biology. </div>
<div>Instabilities do not have quanta as their excitations.
There is no minimum energy h/2. </div>
<div>The information is encoded as Gestalts / Forms / Ideas (all
equivalent). </div>
<div>No excitation energy is involved in their transmission or
reception. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Do read my 2015 paper in the Journal of Progress in
Biophysics and Molecular Biology.</div>
<div>Best wishes, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alex Hankey </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 18 April 2017 at 03:38, Sungchul Ji
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sji@pharmacy.rutgers.edu" target="_blank">sji@pharmacy.rutgers.edu</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div id="m_-613179804837693133divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"
dir="ltr">
<p>Hi Pedro,</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I am not well familiar with Sheldrake's phenomenon of
the Seventh Sense. Reading one of his articles on
line, "The sixth Sense and the Seventh Sense: A Part
of Our Biological Nature ?", indicated to me that the
phenomenon of the seventh sense he described may well
be real and biological. But what he does not yet
know, as he admits, is how this phenomenon may
be occurring, i.e., what is the mechanism behind it.
Answering this question may not be easy, since it
would entail knowing how our brain perceives
the reality through our senses, the sixth and
the seventh included.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>As long as the seventh sense is biological, as
Sheldrake seems to assume, I would predict that the
information being exchanged between the observer and
his/her environment through this sense would obey what
I called the Third Law of Informatics i.e., no
information can be exchanged without dissipation of kt
ln(2) joules of energy per bit. (In my previous post,
I forgot to iinclude "ln(2)"). </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Or another possibility is that Sheldrakes' phenomenon
of the seventh sense is unknowable. That is , it
may long to the category of phenomena that the human
intellect is incapable of knowing, just as apophatic
theologians believe that God cannot be described in
human language. In part influenced by the
apophatic theology and in part by semiotics of Peirce
(which I found a way to extend to include the
ineffable, based on the so-called quark model of signs
; see [2] in the attached references), I came to the
conclusion that science (or the systematic study of
the reality) may be divided into two branches -- the
traditional "cataphatic" (or positivistic) branch and
the "apophatic" (or negative or ineffable) branch as
schematically depicted in the attached figure. The
division of science into these two branches may be
considered as the extension of Bob Ulanowicz's
division of Shannon entropy H into the cataphatic
component, A, and the apophatic component, fi [see Eq.
(2) in "Towards Quantifying a Wider Reality: Shannon
Exonerata",
<i>Information</i> 2011, <b>2</b>, 624-634]. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>With all the best.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Sung</p>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<p><br>
</p>
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<hr
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<div
id="m_-613179804837693133m_-7593748115956488656divRplyFwdMsg"
dir="ltr"><font
style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif"
color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Fis
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"
target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>>
on behalf of Pedro C. Marijuan
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"
target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 12,
2017 12:20:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'fis'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis]
planckian information</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_-613179804837693133h5">
<div><span></span>Dear Sung and
FIS Colleagues,<br>
<br>
We have barely discussed the new
notion of Planckian information
and the amazing variety of
self-organization processes that
abide by it. It is a pity for I
think it is a relevant
conceptualization that can
contribute to new developments
in our field. Thank you, Sung,
for presenting it in this list.
<br>
What I do not see is the
relationship to be established
with languages: at cosmic,
cellular, and human scales. Is
it necessary? Is it convenient?
Concretely, in one of the last
papers mentioned in the kickoff
text there is a explicit
reference to the 12 conditions
to be fulfilled by any language.
Could you please explain those
conditions? In the case of
living cells, there is no
reference at all to signaling
systems--how any cellular
"language" can be delineated
without considering the "speech
apparatus" of the cell? The
profligate of new terms coined
around information, energy,
knowledge, etc. does not help
either to keep a clear focus in
the essential idea, which as
expressed above revolves around
P.I. --although I recognize that
most of them may have some
point of interest, taking
together they somehow dilute the
main message.<br>
<br>
Best wishes--Pedro<br>
<br>
<pre class="m_-613179804837693133m_-7593748115956488656moz-signature" cols="72">--
------------------------------<wbr>-------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-613179804837693133m_-7593748115956488656moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-613179804837693133m_-7593748115956488656moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/p<wbr>edrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------<wbr>------------------- </pre>
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<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">Alex Hankey M.A. (Cantab.) PhD</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"> (M.I.T.)
Distinguished Professor of Yoga and Physical Science,
SVYASA, Eknath Bhavan, 19 Gavipuram Circle
Bangalore 560019, Karnataka, India
Mobile (Intn'l): +44 7710 534195 </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"></span>
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<div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif">
</span></div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/00796107/119/3" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">2015 JPBMB Special Issue on Integral Biomathics: Life Sciences, Mathematics
and Phenomenological Philosophy</a></span></div>
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</blockquote></div>
<div>
</div>--
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">Alex Hankey M.A. (Cantab.) PhD</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"> (M.I.T.)
Distinguished Professor of Yoga and Physical Science,
SVYASA, Eknath Bhavan, 19 Gavipuram Circle
Bangalore 560019, Karnataka, India
Mobile (Intn'l): +44 7710 534195 </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"></span><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">Mobile (India) +91 900 800 8789</span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="font-size:12.8px">____________________________________________________________</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif">
</span></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/00796107/119/3" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">2015 JPBMB Special Issue on Integral Biomathics: Life Sciences, Mathematics and Phenomenological Philosophy</a></span></div></span></div></div></div></div>
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