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<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>gyuri, how can we get online or email access to your article on how
inanimate things exchange information?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>with warmth and oomph--howard</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>ps i believe i'm in the volume for the information summit in vienna with
you. but if you get me a word or pdf version of your article, i can upload
it to my kindle, carry it with me wherever i go, and read it.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 size=2 face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10">----------<BR>Howard Bloom<BR>Howardbloom.net<BR>author of : The
Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History
("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post), Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind
from the Big Bang to the 21st Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New
Yorker), The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism
("Impressive, stimulating, and tremendously enjoyable."James Fallows, National
Correspondent, The Atlantic), The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates
("Bloom's argument will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich), How I
Accidentally Started the Sixties (“a monumental,epic, glorious literary
achievement.” Timothy Leary), and The Muhammad Code: How a Desert Prophet
Gave You ISIS, al Qaeda, and Boko Haram--or How Muhammad Invented Jihad (“a
terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam,” David Swindle, PJ
Media).<BR>Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Former Visiting
Scholar—Graduate Psychology Department, NewYork University<BR>Founder:
International PaleopsychologyProject; founder and chair, Space Development
Steering Committee; Founding Board Member: Epic of Evolution Society; Founding
Board Member, The Darwin Project; Board Of Governors, National Space Society;
Founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of
Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of Science, American
Psychological Society, Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and
Evolution Society, International Society for Human Ethology, Scientific
Advisory Board Member, Lifeboat Foundation.
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 3/25/2017 5:48:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
darvasg@iif.hu writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<P>Dear Krassimir,</P>
<P>They can!!!!</P>
<P>For details, see my contrinution to the 2015 Vienna IS4IS meeting and
following publications of the proceedings!</P>
<P>Best, Gyuri</P>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P> </P>
<P>24.03.2017 16:25 időpontban Krassimir Markov ezt írta:</P>
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<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: large">Dear Arturo and FIS
Colleagues,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: large">Let me remember that:</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: large">The basic misunderstanding that
non-living objects could "exchange information" leads to many
principal theoretical as well as psychological faults.
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: large">For instance, photon could exchange only
energy and/or reflections !</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: large"><EM>Sorry for this n-th my remark ...
</EM></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: large">Friendly greetings</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: large">Krassimir</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: large"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: large"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: large"></SPAN> </DIV>
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<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><STRONG>From:</STRONG> <A
title=mailto:tozziarturo@libero.it
href="mailto:tozziarturo@libero.it">tozziarturo@libero.it</A></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Sent:</STRONG> Friday, March 24, 2017 4:52 PM</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>To:</STRONG> <A title=mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</A></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Subject:</STRONG> [Fis] I: Re: Is information truly
important?</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline">
<BLOCKQUOTE
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type="cite"><BR><BR>
<DIV>Dear <SPAN style="COLOR: #000000">Lars-Göran, </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: #000000">I prefer to use asap my second FIS
bullet, therefore it will be my last FIS mail for the next days.
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: #000000"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: #000000">First of all, in special relativity,
a</SPAN>n observer is NOT by definition a material object that can receive
and store incoming energy from other objects. <SPAN
style="COLOR: #000000"><BR></SPAN>
<DIV>In special relativity, an observer is a frame of reference from which
a set of objects or events are being measured. Speaking of an
observer is not specifically hypothesizing an individual person who is
experiencing events, but rather it is a particular mathematical context
which objects and events are to be evaluated from. The effects of special
relativity occur whether or not there is a "material object that can
recieve and store incoming energy from other objects" within the inertial
reference frame to witness them.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>Furthermore, take a photon (traveling at speed light)
that crosses a cosmic zone close to the sun. The photon "detects"
(and therefore can interact with) a huge sun surface (because of its high
speed), while we humans on the Earth "detect" (and can interact with) a
much smaller sun surface.</DIV>
<DIV>Therefore, the photon may exchange more information with the sun than
the humans on the Earth: both the photon and the humans interact with the
same sun, but they "detect" different surfaces, and therefore they may
exchange with the sun a different information content. </DIV>
<DIV>If we also take into account that the photon detects an almost
infinite, fixed time, this means once again that it can exchange much more
information with the sun than we humans can.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In sum, once again, information does not seem to be a physical
quantity, rather just a very subjective measure, depending on the speed
and of the time of the "observer". </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> <BR>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpFirst
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; mso-add-space: auto; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'courier new', monospace"><STRONG>Arturo
Tozzi</STRONG></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpFirst
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; mso-add-space: auto; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'courier new', monospace">AA Professor Physics,
University North Texas</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpFirst
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; mso-add-space: auto; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'courier new', monospace">Pediatrician ASL Na2Nord,
Italy</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpFirst
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; mso-add-space: auto; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'courier new', monospace">Comput Intell Lab,
University Manitoba</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpFirst
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; mso-add-space: auto; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'courier new', monospace"><A
title=http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: #05447e; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"
href="http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/">http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/</A><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> </SPAN></SPAN></P></DIV><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0.4em; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0.4em"
type="cite">----Messaggio originale----<BR>Da: "Lars-Göran Johansson"
<Lars-Goran.Johansson@filosofi.uu.se><BR>Data: 24/03/2017
14.50<BR>A: "tozziarturo@libero.it"<tozziarturo@libero.it><BR>Ogg:
Re: [Fis] Is information truly important?<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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type="cite">
<DIV>24 mars 2017 kl. 13:15 skrev <A
title=mailto:tozziarturo@libero.it
href="mailto:tozziarturo@libero.it">tozziarturo@libero.it</A>:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Dear Fisers,</DIV>
<DIV>a big doubt...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We know that the information of a 3D black hole is proportional
to its 2D horizon, according to the Bekenstein-Hawking
equations.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>However, an hypotetical observer traveling at light speed (who
watches a black hole at rest) detects a very large black hole horizon,
due to Einstein's equations.</DIV>
<DIV>Therefore, he detects more information from the black hole than
an observer at rest, who sees a smaller
horizon...</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>An observer is by definition a
material object that can recieve and store incoming energy from other
objects. Since it requires infinite energy to accelerate even a
slighest object to the velocity of light, no observer can travel at the
speed of light. That means that your thought experiment is based in
inconsistent assumptions and no vaild conclusions from them can be
drawn.</DIV>
<DIV>Lars-Göran Johansson</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In sum, information does not seem to be a physical quantity,
rather just a very subjective measure...<BR><BR>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpFirst
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; mso-add-space: auto; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'courier new', monospace"><STRONG>Arturo
Tozzi</STRONG></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpFirst
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; mso-add-space: auto; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN
style="LINE-HEIGHT: 115%"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'courier new', monospace">AA Professor Physics,
University North Texas</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpFirst
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; mso-add-space: auto; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'courier new', monospace">Pediatrician ASL
Na2Nord, Italy</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpFirst
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; mso-add-space: auto; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'courier new', monospace">Comput Intell Lab,
University Manitoba</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormalCxSpFirst
style="TEXT-ALIGN: justify; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm; LINE-HEIGHT: 115%; mso-add-space: auto; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'courier new', monospace"><A
title=http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: #05447e; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"
href="http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/">http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/</A><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"> </SPAN></SPAN></P></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Fis
mailing list<BR><A title=mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es
href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</A><BR>http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: #000000; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
<DIV>Lars-Göran Johansson</DIV>
<DIV><A title=mailto:lars-goran.johansson@filosofi.uu.se
href="mailto:lars-goran.johansson@filosofi.uu.se">lars-goran.johansson@filosofi.uu.se</A></DIV>
<DIV>0701-679178</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<P> </P>
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href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</A></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Fis
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