<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214666">I do not contradict Györgyi.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214665"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214635"><span></span></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214660"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214670" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214669"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214668"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214667"> <font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214671" size="2" face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Gyorgy Darvas <darvasg@iif.hu><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> fis@listas.unizar.es <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, March 1, 2017 1:32 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fis] WHY WE ARE HERE? ...AN UNPLEASANT ANSWER?!<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214674"><br><div id="yiv5551462733"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214673">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214672"><font size="-1"><font face="Arial">David:</font></font></div>
<div><font size="-1"><font face="Arial">The nature of evolution is
such that symmetries emerge and disappear (change).</font></font></div>
<div><font size="-1"><font face="Arial">Gyuri</font></font></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214675"><font size="-1"><font face="Arial"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5551462733moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://www.bu.edu/wcp/Papers/Scie/ScieDarv.htm">http://www.bu.edu/wcp/Papers/Scie/ScieDarv.htm</a><br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5551462733moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://epistemologia.zoomblog.com/archivo/2007/11/28/symmetry-breaking-in-a-philosophical-c.html">http://epistemologia.zoomblog.com/archivo/2007/11/28/symmetry-breaking-in-a-philosophical-c.html</a>
</font></font><br clear="none">
<font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214678" size="-1"><font face="Arial"><font face="Times New Roman CE"><font color="#660000"><font size="-1">Darvas, G. (1998) Laws of
symmetry breaking, <i>Symmetry: Culture and Science</i>,
9, 2-4, 119-127
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5551462733moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://journal-scs.symmetry.hu/content-pages/volume-9-numbers-2-4-pages-113-464-1998/">http://journal-scs.symmetry.hu/content-pages/volume-9-numbers-2-4-pages-113-464-1998/</a>
; <br clear="none">
</font></font></font></font><small>Darvas, G, (2015)</small>
The unreasonable effectiveness of symmetry in the sciences, <small style="color:rgb(102, 0, 0);"><span class="yiv5551462733eudoraheader"><em>Symmetry:
Culture and Science</em>, 26, 1, 39-82.
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5551462733moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://journal-scs.symmetry.hu/content-pages/volume-26-number-1-pages-001-128-2015/">http://journal-scs.symmetry.hu/content-pages/volume-26-number-1-pages-001-128-2015/</a>
; <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5551462733moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://journal-scs.symmetry.hu/purchase/">http://journal-scs.symmetry.hu/purchase/</a></span></small><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214677" face="Arial"><br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5551462733moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284341950_THE_UNREASONABLE_EFFECTIVENESS_OF_SYMMETRY_IN_THE_SCIENCES" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214676">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284341950_THE_UNREASONABLE_EFFECTIVENESS_OF_SYMMETRY_IN_THE_SCIENCES</a></font></font></div>
<div><font size="-1"><font face="Arial"><br clear="none">
</font></font></div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv5551462733yqt8692371552" id="yiv5551462733yqtfd22882"><div class="yiv5551462733moz-cite-prefix" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214679">On 2017.02.28. 19:01, Dave Kirkland
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
</blockquote></div></div><div class="yiv5551462733yqt8692371552" id="yiv5551462733yqtfd69357"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214704">
Dear Arturo Tozzi and FISers
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214705">Thank you for your <u><b>very</b></u> interesting ideas. For
me they raise more questions:</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1488031619878_214706">Why did the number of cosmic symmetries ever <u><b>start</b></u> diminishing?</div>
<div>Could the whole process be eternally cyclical?</div>
<div>I like your respectful use of capital letters.</div>
<div>My mind boggles.</div>
<div>Best rgds</div>
<div>David</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div>On 24 Feb 2017, at 15:24, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:tozziarturo@libero.it" target="_blank" href="mailto:tozziarturo@libero.it">tozziarturo@libero.it</a>
wrote:</div>
<br class="yiv5551462733Apple-interchange-newline" clear="none">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpFirst" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">Dear FISers, </span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpFirst" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">hi! </span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpFirst" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">A possible novel discussion (if you like it, of
course!): </span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpFirst" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpFirst" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><font face="Times New Roman, serif"><span style="font-size:13.3333px;"><b>A SYMMETRY-BASED ACCOUNT OF LIFE AND
EVOLUTION</b></span></font><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpFirst" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">After the Big Bang, a gradual increase in
thermodynamic entropy is occurring in our Universe
(Ellwanger, 2012). Because of the relationships between
entropy
and symmetries (</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;">Roldán et al., 2014</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">), the
number of cosmic symmetries, the highest possible at the
very start, is declining
as time passes. Here the evolution of
living beings comes into play. Life is a
space-limited increase of energy and complexity, and
therefore of
symmetries. The evolution proceeds
towards more complex systems (Chaisson, 2010), until
more advanced forms of
life able to artificially increase the symmetries of the
world. Indeed, the human brains’ cognitive abilities
not just think objects and events more complex than the
physical ones existing
in Nature, but build highly symmetric crafts too. For
example, human beings can watch a rough
stone, imagine an amygdala and build it from the same
stone. Humankind is able, through its ability to
manipulate
tools and technology, to produce objects (and ideas,
i.e., equations) with complexity
levels higher than the objects and systems encompassed
in the pre-existing
physical world. Therefore, human beings
are naturally built by evolution in order to increase
the number of environmental
symmetries. This is in touch with recent
claims, suggesting that the brain is equipped with a
number of functional and anatomical
dimensions higher than the 3D environment (Peters et
al., 2017). Intentionality, typical of the living
beings
and in particular of the human mind, may be seen as a
mechanism able to
increase symmetries. As Dante Alighieri
stated (<i>Hell,</i> <i>XXVI, 118-120</i>), “y<i>ou
were not
made to live as brutes, but to follow virtue and
knowledge</i>”. </span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpMiddle" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">In touch with Spencer’s (1860) and Tyler’s
(1881)
claims, it looks like evolutionary mechanisms tend to
achieve increases in environmental
complexity, and therefore symmetries (Tozzi and Peters,
2017). Life is produced in our Universe in order to
restore the initial lost symmetries. At
the beginning of life, increases in symmetries are just
local, e.g., they are
related to the environmental niches where the living
beings are placed. However, in long timescales, they
might be
extended to the whole Universe. For
example, Homo sapiens, in just 250.000 years, has been
able to build the Large Hadron
Collider, where artificial physical processes make an
effort to approximate the
initial symmetric state of the Universe.
Therefore, life is a sort of gauge field (Sengupta et
al., 2016), e.g.,
a combination of forces and fields that try to
counterbalance and restore, in
very long timescales, the original cosmic symmetries,
lost after the Big Bang. Due to physical issues, the
“homeostatic” cosmic
gauge field must be continuous, e.g., life must stand,
proliferate and increase
in complexity over very long timescales.
This is the reason why every living being has an innate
tendency towards
self-preservation and proliferation.
With the death, continuity is broken. This talks in
favor of intelligent
life scattered everywhere in the Universe: if a few
species get extinct, others
might continue to proliferate and evolve in remote
planets, in order to pursue
the goal of the final symmetric restoration. In touch
with long timescales’ requirements,
it must be kept into account that life has been set up
after a long gestation:
a childbearing which encompasses the cosmic birth of
fermions, then atoms, then
stars able to produce the more sophisticated matter
(metals) required for
molecular life. </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpMiddle" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">A symmetry-based framework gives rise to two
opposite
feelings, by our standpoint of human beings.
On one side, we achieve the final answer to
long-standing questions: “<i>why are we here?</i>”, “<i>Why
does the evolution act in such a way?</i>”, an answer
that reliefs
our most important concerns and gives us a <i>sense</i>;
on the other side, however, this framework does not give
us any hope: we are
just micro-systems programmed in order to contribute to
restore a partially
“broken” macro-system. And, in case we
succeed in restoring, through our mathematical abstract
thoughts and
craftsmanship, the initial symmetries, we are
nevertheless doomed to die:
indeed, the environment equipped with the starting
symmetries does not allow
the presence of life.</span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpMiddle" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpLast" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">REFERENCES</span></b></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">1)<span style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;">
</span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Chaisson EJ. 2010.
Energy Rate Density as a Complexity Metric and
Evolutionary Driver. Complexity, v 16, p 27, 2011; DOI:
10.1002/cplx.20323.</span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">2)<span style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;">
</span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Ellwanger U.
2012. From the Universe to the
Elementary Particles. A First
Introduction to Cosmology and the Fundamental
Interactions. Springer-Verlag Berlin Heidelberg. ISBN
978-3-642-24374-5.</span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">3)<span style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;">
</span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Peters JF, Ramanna S, Tozzi A,
Inan E. 2017.
Frontiers Hum Neurosci.
BOLD-independent computational entropy assesses
functional donut-like
structures in brain fMRI image. doi:
10.3389/fnhum.2017.00038. </span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">4)<span style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;">
</span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Sengupta B, Tozzi A, Coray GK,
Douglas PK, Friston KJ.
2016. Towards a Neuronal Gauge
Theory. PLOS Biology 14 (3): e1002400.
doi:10.1371/journal.pbio.1002400.</span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">5)<span style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;">
</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">Spencer
H.
1860. System of Synthetic
Philosophy. </span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoListParagraph" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-align:justify;line-height:13.0pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">6)<span style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;">
</span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="IT">Roldán
E, Martínez IA, Parrondo JMR, Petrov
D. 2014. </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Universal
features in the energetics of symmetry breaking. <i>Nat.
Phys. 10</i>, 457–461.</span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">7)<span style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;">
</span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Tozzi A, Peters JF. 2017.
Towards Topological Mechanisms Underlying Experience
Acquisition and
Transmission in the Human Brain. J.F.
Integr. psych. behav.
doi:10.1007/s12124-017-9380-z</span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="text-align:justify;line-height:normal;"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">8)<span style="font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;">
</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">Tyler EB.
1881.
Anthropology: an Introduction to the Study of Man and
Civilization. </span></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpFirst" style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify;line-height:115%;"><span style="font-size:14px;line-height:normal;"><font face="courier new, monospace"><b>Arturo
Tozzi</b></font></span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpFirst" style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify;line-height:115%;"><span style="line-height:115%;"><font face="courier new, monospace">AA Professor Physics, University North
Texas</font></span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpFirst" style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify;line-height:115%;"><span style="font-size:14px;line-height:normal;"><font face="courier new, monospace">Pediatrician
ASL Na2Nord, Italy</font></span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpFirst" style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify;line-height:115%;"><span style="font-size:14px;line-height:normal;"><font face="courier new, monospace">Comput
Intell Lab, University Manitoba</font></span></div>
<div class="yiv5551462733MsoNormalCxSpFirst" style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;text-align:justify;line-height:115%;"><font face="courier new, monospace"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/" style="font-size:14px;color:rgb(5, 68, 126);line-height:normal;">http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/</a><span style="font-size:14px;line-height:normal;"> </span></font><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
Fis mailing list<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5551462733moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br clear="none">
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<fieldset class="yiv5551462733mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br clear="none">
<pre>_______________________________________________
Fis mailing list
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5551462733moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5551462733moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a>
</pre>
<br clear="none">
</div></div></div><br><div class="yqt8692371552" id="yqtfd68921">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">Fis mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>