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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Howard,<br>
<br>
In any extent, your beautiful questions are beyond my reach. I
think that the physical characterization of life cannot even
provide a whim on your demands; but something of the informational
might provide some limited inroads: prokaryots could not achieve
any significant progress in morphological or differentiation
capabilities within their "colonies". Conversely, eukaryotes
developed multicellularity due to their far higher information
content (genome), their far improved signaling resources, their
endless energy supply in support of the general combinatoric
problem-solving tools (mitochondria), and the incorporation of a
new locus (cytoskeleton) capable of feeling the force field and
reacting to it. A chain of amazing inventions is behind any of the
existing branches of complex life... can do they admit a general
explanation, not just based on natural selection, but on the
improved evolvability that has been obtained by being able to
explore any molecular-recognition contraption (within partially
collapsed solution state-spaces, a la Wagner?). Otherwise we are
lead to admit a deep enigma, still uncharted, or to look for
external "intelligence" solutions outside the limits of current
scientific paradigms.<br>
<br>
What is your own opinion??<br>
<br>
Best wishes--Pedro<br>
<br>
El 09/02/2017 a las 22:44, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:HowlBloom@aol.com">HowlBloom@aol.com</a> escribió:<br>
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<div>fascinating thinking, pedro.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>it triggers this:</div>
<div> </div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY:
"Calibri","sans-serif"; LINE-HEIGHT:
115%; mso-ascii-theme-font: minor-latin;
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mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-US;
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face="Verdana" size="2">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt">The
stages of development are far more than real-world
problem solvers.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>They
set artificial challenges, then achieve them.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Making a
caterpillar that works is an<span style="mso-spacerun:
yes"> </span>enormously complex challenge.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Making a working
butterfly is also immensely more complex than any simple
challenge mounted by the environment.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>Changing from
caterpillar to butterfly in one lifetime is unachievable
beyond all belief.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>And
these grotesquely artificial goals can’t be accounted
for by a simple goal of survival.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>The goal, if
anything, seems to be to accomplish the ornate, the
unnecessary, the flamboyant, and the impossible.<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>How does a drive
toward impossible flamboyance get built into<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>life?<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>How does<span
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span>it get built into
the cosmos?<o:p></o:p></p>
</font></span></div>
<div>with warmth and oomph--howard</div>
<div><font family="SANSSERIF" ptsize="10" face="Arial" lang="0">----------<br>
Howard Bloom<br>
Howardbloom.net<br>
author of : The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition
Into the Forces of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington
Post), Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big
Bang to the 21st Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New
Yorker), The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of
Capitalism ("Impressive, stimulating, and tremendously
enjoyable."James Fallows, National Correspondent, The
Atlantic), The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates
("Bloom's argument will rock your world." Barbara
Ehrenreich), How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“a
monumental,epic, glorious literary achievement.” Timothy
Leary), and The Muhammad Code: How a Desert Prophet Gave
You ISIS, al Qaeda, and Boko Haram--or How Muhammad Invented
Jihad (“a terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam,”
David Swindle, PJ Media).<br>
Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Former
Visiting Scholar—Graduate Psychology Department, NewYork
University<br>
Founder: International PaleopsychologyProject; founder and
chair, Space Development Steering Committee; Founding Board
Member: Epic of Evolution Society; Founding Board Member,
The Darwin Project; Board Of Governors, National Space
Society; Founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New
York Academy of Sciences, American Association for the
Advancement of Science, American Psychological Society,
Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution
Society, International Society for Human Ethology,
Scientific Advisory Board Member, Lifeboat Foundation.
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>In a message dated 2/9/2017 3:22:55 P.M. Eastern
Standard Time, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a> writes:</div>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Marcus and
Colleagues,<br>
<br>
Thanks for your interest. The Chengdu's Conference
represented for me an occasion to return to my
beginnings, in the 80's, when I prepared a PhD
Thesis: "Natural Intelligence: On the evolution of
biological information processing". It was mostly
following a top down approach. But in some of the
discussions outdoors of the conference (a suggestion
for the next one in Shanghai: plenary discussion
sessions should also be organized) I realized that
biomolecular things have changed quite a lot. One
could go nowadays the other way around: from the
molecular-informational organization of cellular
life, to intelligence of the cell's behavior withing
the environment. The life cycle es essential. It
provides the source of "meaning" (as I have often
argued in discussions in the list) but it is also
the reference for "intelligence". Communicating with
the environment and self-producing by means of the
environmental affordances have to be smoothly
organized so that the stages of the life cycle may
be advanced, and that the "problems" arising from
the internal or the external may be adequately
solved. It means signalling and self-modifying in
front of the open-ended environmental problems,
sensing and acting coherently... It strangely
connects with the notion of human "story" and the
communication cycle in the humanities. Relating
intelligence to goal accomplishment or to an
architecture of goals as usually done in
computational realms implies that the real life
course (or the surrogate) is reduced to a very
narrow segment. True intelligence evaporates. <br>
These were some of my brute reflections that I have
to keep musing around (I saw interesting
repercussions for cellular signaling "narratives"
too). Maybe this is also a good opportunity for
other parties of that conference to expostulate
their own impressions --very exciting presentations
both from Chinese and Western colleagues there.<br>
<br>
Thanks again,<br>
--Pedro<br>
<br>
El 08/02/2017 a las 14:14, Marcus Abundis escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACJqm9w49FPTTqy257t9CQsABW_+ASFm4b4yj_JymdJ2-xQKAQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">> In next weeks some further
discussion might be started, but at the
time being, the slot is empty (any ideas?)<
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hi Pedro,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For my part I would appreciate a chance to
hear more about the thoughts you have been
developing (even if they are very rough) as
related to the talk you gave in China last
summer.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alternatively, further thoughts on Gordana's
talk would be nice to hear.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For both of these talks, you both shared your
presentation stack . . . but there was so much
information in both of those talks, it would be
nice to have some of "unpacked."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Marcus</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<br>
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Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
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