<div dir="ltr">Cari Joseph, Loet, Pedro, Terry e Tutti,<div>anch'io non sono esperto di mini-buchi neri. Posso semplicemente (?) dire, per essermene occupato nel contesto della "Nuova economia",</div><div>che:</div><div>- i buchi neri danno luogo e tempo ad un processo di tras-in-formazione i cui "input" e "output" sono materia, energia e informazione, sebbene, in stati diversi;</div><div>- Il mio "Il sistema fabbrica-mercato" (1979-2011) non è altro che un'organizzazione-struttura che funziona come un buco nero o scatola magica;</div><div>- in diversi libri ho trattato questa problematica evidenziando, pur non essendo un fisico (teorico), che S. Hawking negli anni Settanta formulò una difettosa o sbagliata concezione-definizione dei buchi neri, tanto da fare-perdere una famosa scommessa come lui stesso ha riconosciuto nel 2004;</div><div>- la mia teoria del valore (economico) è basata sulla combinazione creativa di energia e informazione oppure, in modo più completo, sul triangolo dei tre surplus o neg-entropie; </div><div>- non ho la pretesa di esporre-imporre punti di vista esclusivamente economici implicanti approfondimenti specialistici tipici della scienza delle valutazioni; etc.</div><div>Non sarebbe il caso di affrontare la discussione-confronto su i problemi che di volta in volta la Fis-rete affronta senza fare uso di eccessive specializzazioni concettuali e linguistiche, almeno nella prima fase dell'analisi, onde consentire a tutti coloro che ne hanno titolo e voglia di partecipare evitando la confusione-disordine che si traduce inevitabilmente in entropia termodinamica o cibernetico-matematica, ma esclude proprio la primaria importanza della neg-entropia della vita legata all'ordine o all'informazione genetica e semantica?</div><div>Come bene dice (benedice) spesso Joseph senza un approccio ontologico (ed io aggiungo un'apposita memoria paradigmatica) adeguato e condiviso da tutti, non si fa molta strada e soprattutto chi è poverino come me non apprende molto.</div><div>Comunque, grazie anche per le critiche e i suggerimenti che mi verranno.</div><div>Un saluto affettuoso.</div><div>Francesco Rizzo</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-01-12 11:03 GMT+01:00 Joseph Brenner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Dear All,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I am sorry but I am still not satisfied with the
evolution of this discussion to date. I am still looking forward to some
explicit comment on my initial question of why mini black holes would not
evaporate. I note that both Alex and Bruno asked the same question, before
we have seen Gyorgy's comment.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I can confirm from my own small experience as an
organic chemist that entities can be created in the laboratory that not only do
not exist in nature but could not be produced by 'Nature' on its own.
The reactants, reaction vessels, temperatures and pressures to produce
certain fluorochemicals and fluoropolymers could not be brought together in the
same place and time without human intervention.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">In contrast, I see nothing in the discussion here
of mini black holes that, first, suggests they could be the consequence of
intentionally prepared states, with large energies 'brought together' in such a
way that, second, their development would not follow known paths.
</font><font face="Arial" size="2">I do not claim that I could follow the detailed
mathematical physics of the demonstration of the existence of a "5% probability"
that such states would not evaporate. But I and probably others of you much
better could still follow a scientific discourse on the basis of some background
and internal structure.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">For example, the following statement from one of
Otto's notes seems to me to be a <em>non sequitur:</em></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">"If black holes are always uncharged, electrons
cannot be point-shaped as is usually assumed because they would then be black
holes and hence uncharged. They are bound to have a finite diameter large enough
to prevent them from becoming black holes and hence be uncharged."</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">It is no longer valid to say that electrons are
dimensionless points; experiments now establish a radius of the order of 10 to
the -22 meters. If they are 'point-shaped' in the sense of
being effectively spherically symmetrical, their putative fate as black
holes seems irrelevant. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Would it still be possible to see some such new
statements regarding both formation and evolution of mini black holes? The
reference article (Szilamandee) simply repeats the statements we have seen,
albeit in an interesting poetic context.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Thank you.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Joseph</font></div><span class="">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<div style="BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a title="oeross00@yahoo.com" href="mailto:oeross00@yahoo.com" target="_blank">Otto E. Rossler</a>
</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="darvasg@iif.hu" href="mailto:darvasg@iif.hu" target="_blank">Gyorgy
Darvas</a> ; <a title="fis@listas.unizar.es" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 11, 2017 10:49 PM</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] A Curious Story</div></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><br></div>
</span><div style="FONT-SIZE:16px;COLOR:#000;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_187070" dir="ltr"><span><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/search.Search.html?type=publication&query=szilamandee" target="_blank">https://www.researchgate.net/<wbr>search.Search.html?type=<wbr>publication&query=szilamandee</a></span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918qtdSeparateBR"><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><br><br></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yahoo_quoted" id="m_-3531011729164882918yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_187074" style="DISPLAY:block">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_187073" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_187072" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_187071" dir="ltr"><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_187077" face="Arial" size="2">
<hr size="1">
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">From:</span></b> Otto E. Rossler <<a href="mailto:oeross00@yahoo.com" target="_blank">oeross00@yahoo.com</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">To:</span></b> Gyorgy Darvas <<a href="mailto:darvasg@iif.hu" target="_blank">darvasg@iif.hu</a>>; fis <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>> <br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Cc:</span></b> Louis H Kauffman <<a href="mailto:loukau@gmail.com" target="_blank">loukau@gmail.com</a>>; Pedro C. Marijuan
<<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January 11, 2017 3:12
PM<span class=""><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fis] A Curious
Story<br></span></font></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918y_msg_container" id="m_-3531011729164882918yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_187078"><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><br>
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_187080">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_187079" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;COLOR:#000;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62057"><span id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62059">I conform with Geörgyi's
tale.</span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678qtdSeparateBR" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62048"><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yqt9986530306" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yqt69894">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yahoo_quoted" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62052" style="DISPLAY:block">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62051" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62050" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62049" dir="ltr"><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62055" face="Arial" size="2"></font>
<hr id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62054" size="1">
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">From:</span></b> Gyorgy Darvas
<<a href="mailto:darvasg@iif.hu" target="_blank">darvasg@iif.hu</a>><br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">To:</span></b> fis <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>> <br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Cc:</span></b> Otto E. Rossler
<<a href="mailto:oeross00@yahoo.com" target="_blank">oeross00@yahoo.com</a>>; Louis H Kauffman <<a href="mailto:loukau@gmail.com" target="_blank">loukau@gmail.com</a>>; Pedro C.
Marijuan <<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>><br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January 11, 2017 2:09
PM<span class=""><br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[Fis] A Curious Story<br clear="none"></span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678y_msg_container" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62124"><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><br clear="none">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62126"><span class="">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62225"><font size="-1"><font face="Arial">Dear All,</font></font></div>
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62125"><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62128" size="-1"><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62127" face="Arial">I follow O.
Rössler's concerns for a few years.</font></font></div>
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62132"><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62131" size="-1"><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62130" face="Arial">As a physicist
(who is probably not the best specialist in the black hole physics), I do not
want to involve in detailed physical explanations and mathematical proofs for
information specialists, not certainly specialised in physics. <br clear="none"></font></font></div>
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62136"><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62135" size="-1"><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62134" face="Arial">According to
me, there is a misunderstanding that makes the story
curious.</font></font></div>
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62145"><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62144" size="-1"><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62143" face="Arial">Stellar black
holes are a result of a gravitational collapse. That collapse takes place, when
the mass of the star exceeds a critical value; it is a result of the locally
high gravitational field. that gravitational field is stronger than the
electromagnetic field that (in a very simplified picture) keeps the
electrons revolve in a distance around the nucleus. <br clear="none">In the course
of that gravitational collapse the electron shells of the atoms fall in the
nucleus. </font></font><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62227" size="-1"><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62226" face="Arial"><font size="-1"><font face="Arial"> The properties of the black holes are defined for
them.</font></font> The star becomes very small in size, but has a strong
gravitational field, and behaves like described in the bh literature.<br clear="none">Cause: high gravity; effect: collapse, emergence of a bh.<br clear="none"></font></font></div>
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62139"><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62138" size="-1"><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62137" face="Arial">One can produce
single atom collapse in extreme laboratory circumstances. Why not? However, that
single (or few) atom collapse will not produce a gravitational field exceeding
the critical value; since its mass is much less than the critical. The reason is
that it was "created" not by a self-generated gravitational collapse. Therefore,
it will not "eat" matter in its environment. According to the lack of distance
between the nucleus and electron shell(s) around it, these "atoms" (sic!) are
called mini-black-holes. However, they do not behave like the stellar black
holes over the critical mass. <b>The name is only an analogy</b>, marked by the
prefix "mini-".<br clear="none">Cause: not high gravity; effect: no critical mass,
no more attraction of other masses around it than before its collapse. <br clear="none"></font></font></div>
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62147"><font size="-1"><font face="Arial">Regards,<br clear="none">Gyuri<br clear="none"></font></font></div>
<div><font size="-1"><font face="Arial"></font></font><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><br clear="none"></div><br clear="none">
</span><div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yqt0271428217" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yqt75544"><span class="">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678moz-cite-prefix" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62170">On 2017.01.11. 11:33, Otto
E. Rossler wrote:<br clear="none"></div>
</span><blockquote id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62173" type="cite">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62172" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;COLOR:#000;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;BACKGROUND-COLOR:#fff"><span class="">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258451"><span>I like this
response from Lou,</span></div>
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258564"><span>Otto</span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678qtdSeparateBR" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258450"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div>
</span><div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yahoo_quoted" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258448" style="DISPLAY:block">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258447" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258446" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258445" dir="ltr"><font id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258449" face="Arial" size="2"></font>
<hr size="1"><span class="">
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">From:</span></b> Louis H Kauffman <a class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:loukau@gmail.com" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><loukau@gmail.com></a><br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">To:</span></b> Pedro C. Marijuan
<a class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62174" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es></a>
<br clear="none"></span><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Cc:</span></b> fis <a class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a><br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday,
January 10, 2017 6:09 PM<span class=""><br clear="none"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Fis] A Curious Story<br clear="none"></span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678y_msg_container" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258475"><br clear="none">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678"><div><div class="h5">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258474">Dear Folks,
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258473">It is very important to
not be hasty and assume that the warning Professor Rossler made is to be taken
seriously.</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258479">It is relatively easy
to check if a mathematical reasoning is true or false.</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258478">It is much more
difficult to see if a piece of mathematics is correctly alligned to physical
prediction.</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258477">Note also that a
reaction such as </div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258476">"THIS STORY IS A GOOD
REASON FOR SHUTTING DOWN CERN PERMANENTLY AND SAVING A LOT OF LARGELY WASTED
MONEY.”.</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258480">Is not in the form of
scientific rational discussion, but rather in the form of taking a given
conclusion for granted</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258481"> and using it to
support another opinion that is just that - an opinion. </div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258569"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258567">By concatenating such
behaviors we arrive at the present political state of the world.</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258568"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1484135554670_62184">This is why, in my
letter, I have asked for an honest discussion of the possible validity of
Professor Rossler’s arguments.</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258483"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258485">At this point I run out
of commentary room for this week and I shall read and look forward to making
further comments next week.</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258561">Best,</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258513">Lou Kauffman</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258509"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258508">
<blockquote class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258507" type="cite">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yqt1808762045" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yqtfd80764">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258506">On Jan 9, 2017, at
7:17 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan <<a class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258515" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>>
wrote:</div><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678Apple-interchange-newline" clear="none">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678"></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div>
</div></div><div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yqt1808762045" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yqtfd26090"><div><div class="h5">
<div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258492">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258491">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258505">From Alex Hankey</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678">-------- Mensaje reenviado --------</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678moz-forward-container" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258490">
<table class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678moz-email-headers-table m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yahoo-compose-table-card m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yahoo-compose-table-card m_-3531011729164882918yahoo-compose-table-card" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258489" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258488">
<tr class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258558">
<th class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" valign="baseline" nowrap align="right">Asunto: </th>
<td class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258557">Re: [Fis] A
Curious Story</td></tr>
<tr class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258487">
<th class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" valign="baseline" nowrap align="right">Fecha: </th>
<td class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258486">Sun, 8 Jan 2017
19:55:55 +0530</td></tr>
<tr class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678">
<th class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" valign="baseline" nowrap align="right">De: </th>
<td class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678">Alex Hankey <a class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alexhankey@gmail.com" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><alexhankey@gmail.com></a></td></tr>
<tr class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678">
<th class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" valign="baseline" nowrap align="right">Para: </th>
<td class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678">PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ <a class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es></a></td></tr></tbody></table><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></div></div></div>
</div></div><div id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258522"><div><div class="h5">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" dir="ltr">THIS STORY IS A GOOD REASON FOR SHUTTING DOWN
CERN PERMANENTLY AND SAVING A LOT OF LARGELY WASTED MONEY.</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678gmail_extra" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258521"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678gmail_quote" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258520">On 5 January 2017 at
16:36, PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ <span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" dir="ltr"><<a class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none">
<blockquote class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678gmail_quote" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258519" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258518">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258517" style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;DIRECTION:ltr;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma">Dear FISers,
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258553"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258555">Herewith the Lecture
inaugurating our 2017 sessions.</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678">I really hope that this Curious Story is just that,
a curiosity.</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678">But in science we should not look for hopes but for
arguments and counter-arguments...</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258551">Best wishes to All
and exciting times for the New Year!</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258552">--Pedro</div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258516"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258524"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258528"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258527" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New Roman'">
<hr class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258526">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950divRpF987497" style="DIRECTION:ltr"><font class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678">De:</b> Otto E. Rossler [<a class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" href="mailto:oeross00@yahoo.com" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">oeross00@yahoo.com</a>]<br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"><b class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678">Enviado el:</b>
miércoles, 04 de enero de 2017 17:51<br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"><b class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678">Para:</b> PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ<br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"><b class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678">Asunto:</b> NY
session<br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></font></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258530">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483728784718_258529" style="FONT-SIZE:16px;FONT-FAMILY:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif;BACKGROUND-COLOR:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10416" dir="ltr"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10274">----------------------</span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10335" dir="ltr"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10544"><b class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10545"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10546" style="FONT-SIZE:20pt">A Curious Story</span></b></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10547"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10548"></span> </div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10549"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10550">Otto
E. Rossler, University of Tübingen, Germany<br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10764"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10550"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10763"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10550">Maybe
I am the only one who finds it curious. Which fact would then make it even
more curious for me. It goes like this: Someone says “I can save your house
from a time bomb planted into the basement” and you respond by saying “I
don’t care.” This curious story is taken from the Buddhist bible.
</span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10551"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10552"></span> </div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10553" dir="ltr"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10554">It
of course depends on who is offering to help. It could be a lunatic person
claiming that he alone can save the planet from a time-bomb about to be
planted into it. In that case, there would be no reason to worry. On the
other hand, it could also be that you, the manager, are a bit high at the
moment so that you don't fully appreciate the offer made to you. How serious
is my offer herewith made to you today?</span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10555"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10556"></span> </div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10557"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10558">I
only say that for eight years' time already, there exists no counter-proof
in the literature to my at first highly publicized proof of danger. I was
able to demonstrate that the miniature black holes officially attempted to
be produced at CERN do possess two radically new properties: <br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11913"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></div>
<ul class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11919" dir="ltr">
<li class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11920"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11967" style="FONT-FAMILY:Symbol"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11968"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11969" style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-SIZE:7pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-VARIANT:normal"></span></span></span><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11970">they
cannot Hawking evaporate </span>
</li><li class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11921"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_12016" style="FONT-FAMILY:Symbol"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_12017"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_12018" style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-SIZE:7pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal;FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-VARIANT:normal"></span></span></span><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_12019">they
grow exponentially inside matter</span><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11922" clear="none"></li></ul><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10565" style="FONT-FAMILY:Symbol"> </span><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10568"></span>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10569"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10570">If
these two findings hold water, the current attempt at producing ultra-slow
miniature black holes on earth near the town of Geneva means that the
slower-most specimen will get stuck inside earth and grow there
exponentially to turn the planet into a 2-cm black hole after several of
undetectable growth. Therefore the current attempt of CERN's to produce them
near Geneva is a bit curious. </span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10571"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10572"></span> </div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10573"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10574">What
is so curious about CERN's attempt? It is the fact that no one finds it
curious. I am reminded of an old joke: The professor informs the candidate
about the outcome of the oral exam with the following words “You are bound
to laugh but you have flunked the test.” I never understood the punchline. I
likewise cannot understand why a never refuted proof of the biggest danger
of history leaves everyone unconcerned. Why NOT check an unattended piece of
luggage on the airport called Earth? <span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10575"> </span></span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10576"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10577"></span> </div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10578"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10579">To
my mind, this is the most curious story ever -- for the very reason that
everyone finds it boring. A successful counter-proof would thus alleviate
but a single person’s fears – mine. You, my dear reader, are thus my last
hope that you might be able to explain the punch line to me: “Why is it that
it does not matter downstairs that the first floor is ablaze?” I am
genuinely curious to learn why attempting planetocide is fun. Are you
not?<br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_15051"><span class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" lang="EN-US" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10579"><br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></span></div>
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J.O.R.<br class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678" clear="none"></span></div>
<div class="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950y_msg_container" id="m_-3531011729164882918yiv2375030678m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10337">
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