<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Dear Louis, Pedro and FISers,<br><br></div>I have been knowing Otto for about a litle less than 10 years now.<br></div>What I have learned from him is that he has a very subtle sense of humor and wisdom.<br></div>What I conclude about this issue with CERN's LHC is that he wishes nothing more/less than an a priori theoretical proof that the black hole experiments will not lead to a collaps of the Earth.<br></div>He would be more than happy if somebody provides this proof and his concerns about our future appear ungrounded, so that the experiments can continue without any fear about the possible end of humanity. But as he said, nobody has done this until now. Nobody has taken these concerns seriously. The key question for us is why do we allow such experiments without having such a proof? Why do we play with fire in our own kitchen without being sure that we can deal with its breakout? If the accident occurs, then it will be too late to prevent the danger, unless we have a time machine, which is not the case at the moment, I am afraid.<br></div><br></div>So, I think that Otto's appeal can be considered as a challenge not less important than the one with the proof of Fermat's last theorem.<br></div>While there was no danger from keeping this problem unsolved for 300+ years, we may have a real problem now.<br></div>So, why not trying to administer science for being performed in a reasonable way: to not place the horses (experimental science) before the cabin (theoretical science) - which is the case with LHC?<br></div><div>Otto only wishes to say: "We should not do such experients, until we have a theoretical proof or at least to have a computer simulation demonstrating that the chance of having such a disaster is diminishing." And even if this is the case, we should carry a referendum over 4+ billion people on Earth on wether to allow such experiments or not. They are not only an issue ofr a government or of an over-excited community of physicists. Please correct me if I am wrong, Otto. <br></div><div> <br></div><div>I hope this helps.<br><br></div><div>All the best.<br><br></div><div>Plamen<br><br></div><div><br><div><div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>____________________________________________________________</div></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 6:09 PM, Louis H Kauffman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:loukau@gmail.com" target="_blank">loukau@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Dear Folks,<div>It is very important to not be hasty and assume that the warning Professor Rossler made is to be taken seriously.</div><div>It is relatively easy to check if a mathematical reasoning is true or false.</div><div>It is much more difficult to see if a piece of mathematics is correctly alligned to physical prediction.</div><div>Note also that a reaction such as </div><div>"THIS STORY IS A GOOD REASON FOR SHUTTING DOWN CERN PERMANENTLY AND SAVING A LOT OF LARGELY WASTED MONEY.”.</div><div>Is not in the form of scientific rational discussion, but rather in the form of taking a given conclusion for granted</div><div> and using it to support another opinion that is just that - an opinion. </div><div><br></div><div>By concatenating such behaviors we arrive at the present political state of the world.</div><div><br></div><div>This is why, in my letter, I have asked for an honest discussion of the possible validity of Professor Rossler’s arguments.</div><div><br></div><div>At this point I run out of commentary room for this week and I shall read and look forward to making further comments next week.</div><div>Best,</div><div>Lou Kauffman</div><div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Jan 9, 2017, at 7:17 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan <<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_96228629953679471Apple-interchange-newline"><div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><p>From Alex Hankey</p><p>-------- Mensaje reenviado --------</p>
<div class="m_96228629953679471moz-forward-container">
<table class="m_96228629953679471moz-email-headers-table" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<th nowrap align="RIGHT" valign="BASELINE">Asunto:
</th>
<td>Re: [Fis] A Curious Story</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap align="RIGHT" valign="BASELINE">Fecha: </th>
<td>Sun, 8 Jan 2017 19:55:55 +0530</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap align="RIGHT" valign="BASELINE">De: </th>
<td>Alex Hankey <a class="m_96228629953679471moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alexhankey@gmail.com" target="_blank"><alexhankey@gmail.com></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap align="RIGHT" valign="BASELINE">Para: </th>
<td>PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ
<a class="m_96228629953679471moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank"><pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es></a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">THIS STORY IS A GOOD REASON FOR SHUTTING DOWN CERN
PERMANENTLY AND SAVING A LOT OF LARGELY WASTED MONEY.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 5 January 2017 at 16:36, PEDRO
CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;font-size:10pt">Dear
FISers,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Herewith the Lecture inaugurating our 2017
sessions.</div>
<div>I really hope that this Curious Story is just that,
a curiosity.</div>
<div>But in science we should not look for hopes but for
arguments and counter-arguments...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best wishes to All and exciting times for the New
Year!</div>
<div>--Pedro</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
<div style="font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:16px">
<hr>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950divRpF987497" style="direction:ltr"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>De:</b> Otto E.
Rossler [<a href="mailto:oeross00@yahoo.com" target="_blank">oeross00@yahoo.com</a>]<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> miércoles, 04 de enero de
2017 17:51<br>
<b>Para:</b> PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ<br>
<b>Asunto:</b> NY session<br>
</font></div>
<div>
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:HelveticaNeue,'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,'Lucida Grande',sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr" id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10416"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10274">----------------------</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10335"><br>
</div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10544"><b id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10545"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10546" style="font-size:20.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">A Curious Story</span></b></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10547"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10548" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10549"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10550" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Otto E. Rossler, University
of Tübingen, Germany<br>
</span></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10764"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10550" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10763"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10550" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">Maybe I am the only one who
finds it curious. Which fact would then
make it even more curious for me. It goes
like this: Someone says “I can save your
house from a time bomb planted into the
basement” and you respond by saying “I
don’t care.” This curious story is taken
from the Buddhist bible.
</span></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10551"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10552" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10553" dir="ltr"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10554" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">It of course depends on who
is offering to help. It could be a lunatic
person claiming that he alone can save the
planet from a time-bomb about to be
planted into it. In that case, there would
be no reason to worry. On the other hand,
it could also be that you, the manager,
are a bit high at the moment so that you
don't fully appreciate the offer made to
you. How serious is my offer herewith made
to you today?</span></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10555"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10556" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10557"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10558" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">I only say that for eight
years' time already, there exists no
counter-proof in the literature to my at
first highly publicized proof of danger. I
was able to demonstrate that the miniature
black holes officially attempted to be
produced at CERN do possess two radically
new properties:
<br>
</span></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11913"><br>
</div>
<ul dir="ltr" id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11919">
<li id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11920"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11967" style="font-family:Symbol" lang="EN-US"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11968"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11969"></span></span></span><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11970" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">they cannot Hawking
evaporate </span></li>
<li id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11921"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_12016" style="font-family:Symbol" lang="EN-US"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_12017"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_12018"></span></span></span><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_12019" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">they grow exponentially
inside matter</span><br id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11922">
</li>
</ul>
<span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10565" style="font-family:Symbol" lang="EN-US"> </span><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10568" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"></span>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10569"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10570" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">If these two findings hold
water, the current attempt at producing
ultra-slow miniature black holes on earth
near the town of Geneva means that the
slower-most specimen will get stuck inside
earth and grow there exponentially to turn
the planet into a 2-cm black hole after
several of undetectable growth. Therefore
the current attempt of CERN's to produce
them near Geneva is a bit curious. </span></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10571"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10572" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10573"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10574" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">What is so curious about
CERN's attempt? It is the fact that no one
finds it curious. I am reminded of an old
joke: The professor informs the candidate
about the outcome of the oral exam with
the following words “You are bound to
laugh but you have flunked the test.” I
never understood the punchline. I likewise
cannot understand why a never refuted
proof of the biggest danger of history
leaves everyone unconcerned. Why NOT check
an unattended piece of luggage on the
airport called Earth?
<span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10575"> </span></span></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10576"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10577" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10578"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10579" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">To my mind, this is the most
curious story ever -- for the very reason
that everyone finds it boring. A
successful counter-proof would thus
alleviate but a single person’s fears –
mine. You, my dear reader, are thus my
last hope that you might be able to
explain the punch line to me: “Why is it
that it does not matter downstairs that
the first floor is ablaze?” I am genuinely
curious to learn why attempting
planetocide is fun. Are you not?<br>
</span></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_15051"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10579" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US"><br>
</span></div>
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_15055"><span id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10579" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"" lang="EN-US">For J.O.R.<br>
</span></div>
<div class="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950y_msg_container" id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10337">
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_11448">---------------</div>
<br>
</div>
<div class="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yahoo_quoted" id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10266" style="display:block">
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10265" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div id="m_96228629953679471m_-4133926382853165950yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1483543774452_10264" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="m_96228629953679471gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">Alex
Hankey M.A. (Cantab.) PhD</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">
(M.I.T.)<br>
Distinguished Professor of Yoga and Physical Science,<br>
SVYASA, Eknath Bhavan, 19 Gavipuram Circle<br>
Bangalore 560019, Karnataka, India <br>
Mobile (Intn'l): <a href="tel:+44%207710%20534195" value="+447710534195" target="_blank">+44 7710 534195</a> </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"></span>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">Mobile
(India) +91 900 800 8789</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="font-size:12.8px">______________________________<wbr>______________________________</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/00796107/119/3" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">2015
JPBMB Special Issue on Integral Biomathics: Life
Sciences, Mathematics and Phenomenological
Philosophy</a></span></div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>Fis mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-<wbr>bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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