<div dir="ltr">Cari Terry, Joseph e Tutti,<div>anche se è più difficile da perseguire e realizzare l'armonia del dis-accordo o la logica concreta o la filosofia pratica può essere "bella", "buona", "giusta" e "vera", per comprendere la prassi dell'esistenza e il dominio della conoscenza, nonché per svolgere la comunicazione tra gli esseri umani come coordinazione comportamentale ricorsiva descritta semanticamente. COMUNICAZIONE che non può prescindere dall'INFORMAZIONE (in economia, ad es., utilizzo il valore della forma o la forma del valore che secondo me vale in tutti i campi della fisica, della biologia, della matematica, della musica, della poesia, dall'arte, della scultura, etc.): un pezzo di ferro vale meno di un chiodo e un chiodo vale meno di una vite; una cellula vale meno di un tessuto e un tessuto vale meno di un organo e un organo vale meno di un organismo;una cellula staminale indifferenziata (moneta biologica) vale più di una cellula differenziata; una nota o un colore vale meno di uno spartito musicale o di un quadro; una parola vale più delle singole vocali o consonanti e meno di una poesia; un simbolo matematico vale meno di un'equazione o di una funzione; un punto o una linea vale meno di una figura geometrica, etc. Qualunque forma deve essere SIGNIFICATA, ecco perché la scienza dell'esistenza o l'esistenza della scienza è SEMPRE BASATA sulla Triade: significazione, informazione, comunicazione. Infine,il dis-equilibrio è vitale e la rottura delle simmetrie o le discontinuità sono creative.</div><div>Quindi bisogna darsi da fare utilizzando le affinità elettive o sinergie che sono nate anche tra alcuni di Voi o di Noi: per costruire, non per distruggere arrivando dove si può arrivare per generalizzare il sapere: piuttosto che toglierlo un mattone è meglio metterlo, non per costruire muri di separazione o contrapposizioni, ma ponti di comunicazione. Saranno quelli che vengono dopo a portare altri mattoni.</div><div>Francesco</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-12-29 23:31 GMT+01:00 Terrence W. DEACON <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:deacon@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">deacon@berkeley.edu</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear Loet and others,<div><br></div><div>I feel as though we are in search of a common general theory, but from divergent perspectives and expectations. Of course we should not merely assume a common general theopry of information if one doesn't yet exist. We agree that such a theory is a ways off, though you some are far more pessimisitic about its possibility than me. I believe that we would do best to focus on the hole that needs filling in rather than assuming that it is an unfillable given.</div><div><br></div><div>My modest suggestion is only that in the absence of a unifying theory we should not privilege one partial theory over others and that in the absence of a global general theory we need to find terminology that clearly identifies the level at which the concept is being used. Lacking this, we end up debating incompatible definitions, and defending our favored one that either excludes or includes issues of reference and significance or else assumes or denies the relevance of human interpreters. With different participants interested in different levels and applications of the information concept—from physics, to computation, to neuroscience, to biosemiotics, to language, to art, etc.—failure to mark this diversity will inevitably lead us in circles. </div><div><br></div><div>I urge humility with precision and an eye toward synthesis.</div><div><br></div><div>Happy new year to all.\</div><div><br></div><div>— Terry</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Dai Griffiths <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dai.griffiths.1@gmail.com" target="_blank">dai.griffiths.1@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Thanks Stan,</p>
<p>Yes, it's a powerful and useful process. <br>
</p>
My problem is that in this list, and in other places were such
matters are discussed, we don't seem to be able to agree on the big
picture, and the higher up the generalisations we go, the less we
agree. <br>
<br>
I'd like to keep open the possibility that we might be yoking ideas
together which it may be more useful to keep apart. We are dealing
with messy concepts in messy configurations, which may not always
map neatly onto a generalisation model. <br><span class="m_-6618160098461688206HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<br>
Dai</font></span><div><div class="m_-6618160098461688206h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778moz-cite-prefix">On 22/12/16 16:45, Stanley N Salthe
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-p1"><span class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-s1">Dai --</span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-p1"><span class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-s1">{phenomenon 1}</span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-p2">{phenomenon 2} --> {Phenomena 1 &
2} ---> {phenomena 1.2,3}<br>
<span class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-s1"></span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-p2">{phenomenon 3}<br>
<span class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-s1"></span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-p2">The process from left to right is
generalization.<br>
<span class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-s1"></span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-p2">‘Information’ IS a generalization.</p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-p2">generalities form the substance of
philosophy. Info happens to a case</p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-p2"> of generalization which can be
mathematized, which in turn allows</p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-p2"> it to be generalized even more.</p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-p2">So, what’s the problem?<br>
<span class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-s1"></span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-p2">STAN<br>
<span class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778gmail-s1"></span></p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 7:44 AM, Dai
Griffiths <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dai.griffiths.1@gmail.com" target="_blank">dai.griffiths.1@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>> Information is not “something out there” which
“exists” otherwise than as our construct.</p>
<p>I agree with this. And I wonder to what extent our
problems in discussing information come from our desire
to shoe-horn many different phenomena into the same
construct. It would be possible to disaggregate the
construct. It be possible to discuss the topics which we
address on this list without using the word
'information'. We could discuss redundancy, variety,
constraint, meaning, structural coupling, coordination,
expectation, language, etc.</p>
<p>In what ways would our explanations be weakened?<br>
</p>
<p>In what ways might we gain in clarity? </p>
<p>If we were to go down this road, we would face the
danger that our discussions might become (even more)
remote from everyday human experience. But many
scientific discussions are remote from everyday human
experience.<br>
</p>
<p>Dai<br>
</p>
<div class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821moz-cite-prefix">On
20/12/16 08:26, Loet Leydesdorff wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Dear
colleagues, </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">A
distribution contains uncertainty that can be
measured in terms of bits of information.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Alternatively:
the expected information content <i>H </i>of a
probability distribution </span><span><img id="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821_x0000_i1025" src="cid:part2.B10289AB.21B23B83@gmail.com" height="27" width="46"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">is
</span><span><img id="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821_x0000_i1025" src="cid:part3.DED9DF1E.388F343F@gmail.com" height="31" width="153"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">H</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">
is further defined as probabilistic entropy using
Gibb’s formulation of the entropy </span><span><img id="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821_x0000_i1025" src="cid:part4.CC4E4BC8.FE1F973F@gmail.com" height="27" width="90"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">This
definition of information is an operational
definition. In my opinion, we do not need an
essentialistic definition by answering the
question of “what is information?” As the
discussion on this list demonstrates, one does not
easily agree on an essential answer; one can
answer the question “how is information defined?”
Information is not “something out there” which
“exists” otherwise than as our construct.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Using
essentialistic definitions, the discussion tends
not to move forward. For example, Stuart
Kauffman’s and Bob Logan’s (2007) definition of
information “as natural selection assembling the
very constraints on the release of energy that
then constitutes work and the propagation of
organization.” I asked several times what this
means and how one can measure this information.
Hitherto, I only obtained the answer that
colleagues who disagree with me will be cited. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#44546a">J</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">
Another answer was that “counting” may lead to
populism. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#44546a">J</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Best,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Loet</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
<hr align="center" size="3" width="100%"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Loet
Leydesdorff </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Professor,
University of Amsterdam<br>
Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" title="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></a><a class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank"></a><a class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank">loet@leydesdorff.net</a> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">;
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><a href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"></span></a><a class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" target="_blank"></a><a class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" target="_blank">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Associate
Faculty, </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><a href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">SPRU,
</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">University
of Sussex; </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Guest
Professor </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><a href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Zhejiang
Univ.</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">,
Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><a href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">ISTIC,
</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Beijing;</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Visiting
Professor, </span><a name="m_-6618160098461688206_m_7584457439853745778_m_3098479109588466821__GoBack"></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><a href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Birkbeck</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">,
University of London; </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><a href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt"></span></a><a class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en" target="_blank"></a><a class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://scholar.google.com/" target="_blank">http://scholar.google.com/</a>cita<wbr>tions?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Dick Stoute [<a class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:dick.stoute@gmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:dick.stoute@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 19, 2016 12:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank">loet@leydesdorff.net</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> James Peters; <a class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ulan@umces.edu" target="_blank"></a><a class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ulan@umces.edu" target="_blank">ulan@umces.edu</a>;
Alex Hankey; FIS Webinar<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] What is information? and
What is life?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">List,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Please
allow me to respond to Loet about the definition
of information stated below. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">1.
the definition of information as uncertainty
is counter-intuitive ("bizarre"); (p. 27)</span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I
agree. I struggled with this definition for a
long time before realising that Shannon was
really discussing "amount of information" or
the number of bits needed to convey a
message. He was looking for a formula that
would provide an accurate estimate of the
number of bits needed to convey a message and
realised that the amount of information
(number of bits) needed to convey a message
was dependent on the "amount" of uncertainty
that had to be eliminated and so he equated
these. </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">It
makes sense to do this, but we must
distinguish between "amount of information"
and "information". For example, we can
measure amount of water in liters, but this
does not tell us what water is and likewise
the measure we use for "amount of information"
does not tell us what information is. We can,
for example equate the amount of water needed
to fill a container with the volume of the
container, but we should not think that water
is therefore identical to an empty volume.
Similarly we should not think that information
is identical to uncertainty.</span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">By
equating the number of bits needed to convey a
message with the "amount of uncertainty" that
has to be eliminated Shannon, in effect,
equated opposites so that he could get an
estimate of the number of bits needed to
eliminate the uncertainty. We should not
therefore consider that this equation
establishes what information is. </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext" style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Dick</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On
18 December 2016 at 15:05, Loet Leydesdorff <<a class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank"></a><a class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
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<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in">Dear James and
colleagues, </p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in">Weaver (1949) made
two major remarks about his coauthor
(Shannon)'s contribution:</p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in">1. the definition
of information as uncertainty is
counter-intuitive ("bizarre"); (p. 27)</p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in">2. "In particular,
information must not be confused with
meaning." (p. 8) </p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in">The definition of
information as relevant for a system of
reference confuses information with
"meaningful information" and thus sacrifices
the surplus value of Shannon's
counter-intuitive definition.</p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:1.0in">information
observer</p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:1.0in">that integrates
interactive processes such as </p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:1.0in">physical
interactions such photons stimulating the
retina of the eye, human-machine
interactions (this is the level that Shannon
lives on), biological interaction such body
temperature relative to touch ice or heat
source, social interaction such as this
forum started by Pedro, economic interaction
such as the stock market, ... [Lerner, page
1].</p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">We are in need of a
theory of meaning. Otherwise, one cannot
measure meaningful information. In a
previous series of communications we
discussed redundancy from this
perspective.</span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:1.0in">Lerner introduces
mathematical expectation E[Sap] (difference
between of a priory entropy [sic] and a
posteriori entropy), which is distinguished
from the notion of relative information Iap
(Learner, page 7).</p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><img id="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m_6893889769850668776_x005f_x0000_i1025" src="cid:part20.083C1D7C.F881252E@gmail.com" border="0" height="36" width="140"></span><span style="color:black">) expresses in bits of
information the information generated when
the a priori distribution </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><img id="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821_x0000_i1026" src="cid:part21.AA311286.ABCC388A@gmail.com" border="0" height="27" width="46"></span><span style="color:black">is turned into the a
posteriori one </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><img id="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821_x0000_i1027" src="cid:part22.B9F364E6.37C2B9D9@gmail.com" border="0" height="27" width="50"></span><span style="color:black">. This follows within
the Shannon framework without needing an
observer. I use this equation, for
example, in my 1995-book <i>The Challenge
of Scientometrics</i> (Chapters 8 and
9), with a reference to Theil (1972). The
relative information is defined as the <i>H</i>/<i>H</i>(max).</span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">I agree that the
intuitive notion of information is derived
from the Latin “in-formare” (Varela,
1979). But most of us do no longer use
“force” and “mass” in the intuitive
(Aristotelian) sense. </span><span style="font-family:Wingdings;color:black">J</span><span style="color:black"> The proliferation of
the meanings of information if confused
with “meaningful information” is
indicative for an “index sui et falsi”, in
my opinion. The repetitive discussion
lames the progression at this list. It is
“like asking whether a glass is half empty
or half full” (Hayles, 1990, p. 59). </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:1.0in">This act of
forming forming an information process
results in the construction of an observer
that is the owner [holder] of information.</p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in">The system of
reference is then no longer the message, but
the observer who provides meaning to the
information (uncertainty). I agree that this
is a selection process, but the variation
first has to be specified independently
(before it can be selected.</p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:1.0in">And Lerner
introduces the threshold between objective
and subjective observes (page 27). This
leads to a consideration selection and
cooperation that includes entanglement.</p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">I don’t see a direct
relation between information and
entanglement. An observer can be
entangled.</span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">Best, </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">Loet</span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="color:black">PS. Pedro: Let me
assume that this is my second posting in
the week which ends tonight. L.</span></p>
<p class="m_-6618160098461688206m_7584457439853745778m_3098479109588466821m6893889769850668776msoplaintext" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
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