<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6002.19567" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear FISers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>There is 'something' in Terry's approach that I
would like to refer to as wisdom. Wisdom need not be thought of as esoteric, but
to describe at least one further level of recursive
information processing in which, echoing Terry, absent properties are
as essential as present ones. In my conception, absent means not only what
is 'not there', but also what is repressed, potentialized, temporarily
forgotten, ignored, devalued or minimized. This is just a tiny bit of
what 'higher-order' properties and an inversion of perspective might
involve.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Best Season's and New Year's
Greetings,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Joseph </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=deacon@berkeley.edu href="mailto:deacon@berkeley.edu">Terrence W.
DEACON</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com
href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com">Francesco Rizzo</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=fis@listas.unizar.es
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 24, 2016 7:22 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fis] What is information? and What is
life?</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(35,35,35); FONT-FAMILY: arial">Dear
colleagues,</P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; MIN-HEIGHT: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(35,35,35); FONT-FAMILY: arial"><FONT
color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT
color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT><BR></P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(35,35,35); FONT-FAMILY: arial">I
am entirely in agreement with the sentiments about mutual respect that Loet
recommends and the "harmony of knowledge" that Francesco promotes. But I believe
that this must also include a willingness to recognize that there isn't a most
basic theory; only what we might characterize as a currently most thoroughly
worked out analysis. But this is an analysis <SPAN
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline">at the most stripped down level</SPAN>—and
which therefore necessarily ignores much that is essential to a fuller analysis
of information.</P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; MIN-HEIGHT: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(35,35,35); FONT-FAMILY: arial"><FONT
color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT
color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT><BR></P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(35,35,35); FONT-FAMILY: arial">In
this respect Loet comments:</P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; MIN-HEIGHT: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(35,35,35); FONT-FAMILY: arial"><FONT
color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT
color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT><BR></P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri">"In
my opinion, the status of Shannon’s mathematical theory of information is
different from special theories of information (e.g., biological ones)
since the formal theory enables us to translate between these latter
theories."</P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MIN-HEIGHT: 18px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri"><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2></FONT><BR></P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri">We
are essentially in agreement, and yet I would invert any perspective that
prioritizes the approach pioneered by Shannon. This analysis of the signal
properties that are necessary for conveying information does not attempt to
address the "higher order" properties that we pay attention to in domains where
reference and functional value are relevant (e.g. biology, neuroscience,
sociology, art). It necessarily brackets these aspects from consideration. It
thereby provides a common <SPAN
style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline">necessary but not sufficient</SPAN> tool
of analysis. More than a half century of development along these lines has
demonstrated that there are critical features of the information relationship
that cannot be reduced to intrinsic signal properties. </P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MIN-HEIGHT: 18px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri"><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2></FONT><BR></P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri">I
have argued that there are basically two higher-order general properties that
constitute information: the referential relation and the normative/functional
value relation (with the term 'meaning' often used somewhat ambiguously to refer
to one or both of these properties). I do not assume that these completely
characterize all higher-order properties, and so I would be open to discussing
additional general attributes that fall outside these domains, and which we need
to also consider.</P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MIN-HEIGHT: 18px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri"><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2></FONT><BR></P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri">So
I am not a fan of prioritizing the statistical conception of information and
considering all others to be "special" theories. </P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MIN-HEIGHT: 18px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri"><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2></FONT><BR></P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri">My
hope for the field is that we will continue to work toward formalization of
these higher-order properties with the aim of embedding our current "signal
property analysis" within this larger theory. In this respect, I would argue
that the "mathematical theory" as currently developed is in fact a "special
theory," restricted to analyses where reference and functional significance can
be set aside (as in engineering applications), and that the "general theory"
remains to be formulated.</P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MIN-HEIGHT: 18px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri"><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2></FONT><BR></P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri">Since
its inception, it has been recognized that the "mathematical theory of
communication" has used the term 'information' in a highly atypical sense. I
think that we would do well to keep this historical "accident" in mind in
order to avoid "information fundamentalism." This demands a sort of
humility in the face of the enormity of the challenge before us, not merely a
tolerance of "special" domains of application that don't completely reduce to
statistical analysis. </P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MIN-HEIGHT: 18px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri"><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2></FONT><BR></P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri">My
proposal is that agreeing on terminological distinctions that support such a
paradigm inversion might provide a first step toward theoretical convergence
toward a "general theory" of information. I would welcome such a discussion in
the new year.</P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MIN-HEIGHT: 18px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri"><FONT
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT><BR></P>
<P
style="FONT-SIZE: 15px; MARGIN: 0px; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri">Happy
holidays to all, Terry</P></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 2:22 AM, Francesco Rizzo <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com"
target=_blank>13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV dir=ltr>Cari Tutti,
<DIV>ho scritto più volte le stesse cose per cui sono d'accordo con Voi,
specialmente con gli ultimi intervenuti. E dato che sono un forestiero
rispetto alle Vostre discipline, ma non uno straniero dell'armonia del sapere
o del sapere dell'armonia, questo è una bella cosa. Auguri di buon Natale e
per il nuovo anno.</DIV><SPAN class=gmail-HOEnZb><FONT color=#888888>
<DIV>Francesco</DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail-HOEnZb>
<DIV class=gmail-h5>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>2016-12-24 7:45 GMT+01:00 Loet Leydesdorff <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"
target=_blank>loet@leydesdorff.net</A>></SPAN>:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV lang=EN-US>
<DIV class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Dear
Terrence and colleagues, <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">I
agree that we should not be fundamentalistic about “information”. For
example, one can also use “uncertainty” as an alternative word to
Shannon-type “information”. One can also make distinctions other than
semantic/syntactic/pragmatic, such as biological information,
etc.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Nevertheless,
what makes this list to a common platform, in my opinion, is our interest in
the differences and similarities in the background of these different
notions of information. In my opinion, the status of Shannon’s mathematical
theory of information is different from special theories of
information (e.g., biological ones) since the formal theory enables us to
translate between these latter theories. The translations are heuristically
important: they enable us to import metaphors from other backgrounds (e.g.,
auto-catalysis).<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">For
example, one of us communicated with me why I was completely wrong, and made
the argument with reference to Kullback-Leibler divergence between two
probability distributions. Since we probably will not have “a general
theory” of information, the apparatus in which information is formally and
operationally defined—Bar-Hillel once called it “information calculus”—can
carry this interdisciplinary function with precision and rigor. Otherwise,
we can only be respectful of each other’s research traditions. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: wingdings">J</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">I
wish you all a splendid 2017,<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P><SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Loet
<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=3>
</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Loet
Leydesdorff </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Professor,
University of Amsterdam<BR>Amsterdam School of Communication Research
(ASCoR)<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><A
title=mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"
target=_blank><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">loet@leydesdorff.net
</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">;
</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><A
title=http://www.leydesdorff.net/ href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">
<BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Associate
Faculty, </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><A
href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/" target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">SPRU, </SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">University
of Sussex; <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Guest
Professor </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><A
href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/" target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Zhejiang Univ.</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">,
Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><A
href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html" target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">ISTIC, </SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Beijing;<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Visiting
Professor, </SPAN><A
name=m_1195894050892560507_m_-2941523153689883601__GoBack></A><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><A
href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/" target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Birkbeck</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">,
University of London; <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><A
href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt">http://scholar.google.com/cita<WBR>tions?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</SPAN></A><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P></SPAN>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"> Fis [mailto:<A
href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"
target=_blank>fis-bounces@listas.uni<WBR>zar.es</A>] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Terrence W. DEACON<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 22, 2016 5:33
AM<BR><B>To:</B> fis</SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507h5><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fis] What
is information? and What is life?<U></U><U></U></DIV></DIV>
<P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507h5>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">Against
information fundamentalism<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">Rather than
fighting over THE definition of information, I suggest that we stand back
from the polemics for a moment and recognize that the term is being used in
often quite incompatible ways in different domains, and that there may be
value in paying attention to the advantages and costs of each. To ignore
these differences, to fail to explore the links and dependencies between
them, and to be indifferent to the different use values gained or sacrificed
by each, I believe that we end up undermining the very enterprise we claim
to be promoting.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">We currently lack
broadly accepted terms to unambiguously distinguish these divergent uses
and, even worse, we lack a theoretical framework for understanding their
relationships to one another.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">So provisionally I
would argue that we at least need to distinguish three hierarchically
related uses of the concept:<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">1. Physical
information: Information as intrinsically measurable medium properties with
respect to their capacity to support 2 or 3 irrespective of any specific
instantiation of 2 or 3.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">2. Referential
information: information as a non-intrinsic relation to something other than
medium properties (1) that a given medium can provide (i.e. reference or
content) irrespective of any specific instantiation of
3.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">3. Normative
information: Information as the use value provided by a given referential
relation (2) with respect to an end-directed dynamic that is susceptible to
contextual factors that are not directly accessible (i.e. functional value
or significance).<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">Unfortunately,
because of the history of using the same term in an unmodified way in each
relevant domain irrespective of the others there are often pointless
arguments of a purely definitional nature.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">In linguistic
theory an analogous three-part hierarchic partitioning of theory IS widely
accepted. <U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">1.
syntax<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">2.
semantics<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">3.
pragmatics<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">Thus by analogy
some have proposed the distinction between<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">1. syntactic
information (aka Shannon)<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">2. semantic
information (aka meaning)<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">3. pragmatic
information (aka useful information)<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">This has also
often been applied to the philosophy of information (e.g. see The Stanford
Dictionary of Philosophy entry for ‘information’). Unfortunately, the
language-centric framing of this distinction can be somewhat misleading. The
metaphoric extension of the terms ‘syntax’ and ‘semantics’ to apply to
iconic (e.g. pictorial) or indexical (e.g. correlational) forms of
communication exerts a subtle procrustean influence that obscures their
naturalistic and nondigital features. This language bias is also often
introduced with the term ‘meaning’ because of its linguistic connotations
(i.e. does a sneeze have a meaning? Not in any standard sense. But it
provides information “about” the state of person who
sneezed.)<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">So as a first
rough terminological distinction I propose using<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">1. physical
information (or perhaps information<SUB>1</SUB>)<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">2. referential
information (information<SUB>2</SUB>)<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">3. normative
information (information<SUB>3</SUB>)<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">to avoid
definitional equivocation and the loss of referential
clarity.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">I would argue that
we use the term ‘information’ in a prescinded way in both 1 and 2. That is,
considered from the perspective of a potential interpretation (3) we can
bracket consideration of any particular interpretation to assess the
possible relational properties that are available to provide reference (2);
and we can bracket both 3 and 2 to only consider the medium/signal
properties minimally available for 2 and 3 irrespective of using them for
these purposes.*<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">Although 2 and 3
are not quantifiable in the same sense that 1 is, neither are they
unconstrained or merely subjective. The possible referential content of a
given medium or sign vehicle is constrained by the physical properties of
the medium and its relationship to its physical context. Normative
information captures the way that referential content can be correct or
incorrect, accurate or inaccurate, useful or useless, etc., depending on the
requirements of the interpretive system and its relation to the context. In
both cases there are specific unambiguously identifiable constraints on
reference and normative value.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">There has been a
prejudice in favor of 1 because of the (mistaken) view that 2 and three are
in some deep sense nonphysical and subjective. Consistent with this view,
there have been many efforts to find a way to reduce 2 and 3 to some
expression of 1. Although it is often remarked that introducing non reduced
concepts of referential content (2) and normative evaluation (3) into the
theory of information risks introducing non quantifiable (and by assumption
non scientific) attributes, I think that this is more a prejudice than a
principle that has been rigorously demonstrated. Even if there is currently
no widely accepted non reductionistic formalization of reference and
significance within the information sciences this is not evidence that it
cannot be achieved. One thing is clear, however, until we find a way to use
the term ‘information’ in a way that does not privilege one of these uses
over the others and unequivocally distinguishes each and their relationships
to one another, the debates we engage in on this forum will remain
interminable.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">So I suggest that
we commence a discussion of how best to accomplish this terminological
brush-clearing before further debating the relevance of information to
physics, logic, biology, or art. I apologize if this is already accepted as
“solved” by some readers, and would be glad to receive and share your
different taxonomies and learn of how they are
justified.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">—
Terry<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">* Stan Salthe
might organize them in a subsumptive hierarchy.<U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<P
style="MIN-HEIGHT: 14px; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 4:19
PM, Mark Johnson <<A href="mailto:johnsonmwj1@gmail.com"
target=_blank>johnsonmwj1@gmail.com</A>> wrote:<U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Dear all,<U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">It's important that one should
remain practical. Shannon's formulae are practical. The correspondence with
certain tenets of cybernetics such as Ashby's Law, or Maturana's "Structural
Coupling" presents Shannon as a window for exploring *relations*
empirically. This I understand to be Bob Ulanowicz's focus too. I think
Ashby's epistemology which accompanied his championing of Shannon (and which
seems to me to be quite radical) is worth a much deeper exploration (it was
eclipsed by second-order cybernetics in the early 70s). Klaus Krippendorff
wrote an excellent paper about this here: <A
href="http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1245&context=asc_papers"
target=_blank>http://repository.upenn.<WBR>edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?articl<WBR>e=1245&context=asc_papers</A><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Information theory is counting
- but it provides a way of measuring relations, which I think marks it out
as distinct from other statistical techniques such as variance. It also
provides the basis for questioning what we actually mean by counting in the
first place: you might call it "critical counting". For example, Ashby makes
the comment about "analogy" (a key concept if we are to say that one thing
is the same class as another when we count them together)... (apologies
because I can't find the reference to this right now, but will send if
anyone is interested):<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">"The principle of analogy is
founded upon the assumption that a degree of likeness between two objects in
respect of their known qualities is some reason for expecting a degree of
likeness between them in respect of their unknown qualities also, and that
the probability with which unascertained similarities are to be expected
depends upon the amount of likeness already known."<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Also, just to correct a
possible misconception: I don't think counting leads to populism.
Econometrics has led to populism. Some of the greatest economists of
the 20th century saw the problem - this is why Keynes wrote a book on
probability, and Hayek wrote extensively criticising mathematical modelling.
In the end, I'm afraid, it's an American problem which goes back to McCarthy
and the distrust of criticality in the social sciences in favour of
positivist mathematical "objectivist" approaches. Those schools in the US
which championed mathematical approaches (Chicago, etc) got all the funding,
controlled the journals, whilst others were starved. The legacy from the
1950s is still with us: it's still very hard to get an economics paper
published unless it's got crazy equations in it. In the end, it's just bad
theory - and bad mathematics.<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">We could well see a similar
thing happen with climate science in the next four
years.<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Best
wishes,<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Mark<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">On 20 December 2016 at 19:55,
Bob Logan <<A href="mailto:logan@physics.utoronto.ca"
target=_blank>logan@physics.utoronto.ca</A>> wrote:<U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Loet - thanks for the mention
of our (Kauffman, Logan et al) definition our definition of information
which is a qualitative description of information. As to whether one can
measure information with our description, my response is no but I am not
sure that one can measure information at all. What units would one use to
measure information? <B><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">E</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"> =
mc </SPAN><SUP><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif">2 </SPAN></SUP>contains
a lot of information but the amount of information depends on context. A
McLuhan one-liner such as 'the medium is the message' also contains a lot of
information even though it is only 5 words or 26 characters
long. <U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Hopefully I have provided some
information but how much information is impossible to
measure.<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Bob<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-style-span><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-style-span><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">______________________</SPAN></SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-style-span><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">Robert
K. Logan</SPAN><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-style-span><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">Prof.
Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-style-span><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">Fellow
University of St. Michael's College</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-style-span><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">Chief
Scientist - sLab at OCAD</SPAN><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-style-span><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><A
href="http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan"
target=_blank>http://utoronto.academia.edu/R<WBR>obertKLogan</A></SPAN></SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-style-span><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><A
href="http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications"
target=_blank>www.researchgate.net/profile/R<WBR>obert_Logan5/publications</A></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><A
href="https://www.physics.utoronto.ca/people/homepages/logan/"
target=_blank>https://www.physics.utoronto.c<WBR>a/people/homepages/logan/</A></SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><U></U><U></U></SPAN> </P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">On Dec 20, 2016, at 3:26 AM,
Loet Leydesdorff <<A href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"
target=_blank>loet@leydesdorff.net</A>> wrote:<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Dear
colleagues,<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">A
distribution contains uncertainty that can be measured in terms of bits of
information.</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Alternatively:
the expected information content<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>H<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></I>of
a probability distribution<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><IMG
id=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m_5557051252754959792gmail-m_-3470337822677402956441C4DF2-0839-40CF-9BE6-FEF61D2D3BA8
height=27 src="cid:D9D029904E1646B381E800EF9E8E614A@PCdeJoseph" width=46
border=0><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">is<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><IMG
id=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m_5557051252754959792gmail-m_-34703378226774029560FC17564-6D70-4E03-905E-E48BC03F54CB
height=31 src="cid:35FCF8B6CBF9490DAD0B59D34222857C@PCdeJoseph" width=153
border=0><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">.</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><I><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">H</SPAN></I><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">is
further defined as probabilistic entropy using Gibb’s formulation of the
entropy<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><IMG
id=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m_5557051252754959792gmail-m_-34703378226774029561D1BFD38-35ED-4098-A615-87C6F60682D7
height=27 src="cid:8628D531DC9A4F12B55FC669B69D2211@PCdeJoseph" width=90
border=0><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">.</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">This
definition of information is an operational definition. In my opinion, we do
not need an essentialistic definition by answering the question of “what is
information?” As the discussion on this list demonstrates, one does not
easily agree on an essential answer; one can answer the question “how is
information defined?” Information is not “something out there” which
“exists” otherwise than as our construct.</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Using
essentialistic definitions, the discussion tends not to move forward. For
example, Stuart Kauffman’s and Bob Logan’s (2007) definition of information
“as natural selection assembling the very constraints on the release of
energy that then constitutes work and the propagation of organization.” I
asked several times what this means and how one can measure this
information. Hitherto, I only obtained the answer that colleagues who
disagree with me will be cited.<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: wingdings">J</SPAN><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Another
answer was that “counting” may lead to populism.<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: wingdings">J</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Best,</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Loet</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=3>
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Loet
Leydesdorff<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Professor,
University of Amsterdam<BR>Amsterdam School of Communication Research
(ASCoR)</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><A
title=mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: purple">loet@leydesdorff.net<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">;<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><A
title=http://www.leydesdorff.net/ href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: purple">http://<WBR>www.leydesdorff.net/</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><BR></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Associate
Faculty,<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><A
href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/" target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: purple">SPRU,<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">University of
Sussex;<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Guest Professor<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><A
href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/" target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: purple">Zhejiang Univ.</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">, Hangzhou; Visiting
Professor,<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><A
href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html" target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: purple">ISTIC,<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Beijing;</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Visiting
Professor,<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><A
name=m_1195894050892560507_m_-2941523153689883601_m_5557051252754959792_m_-347033782267740></A><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><A
href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/" target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: purple">Birkbeck</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">, University of
London;<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><A
href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; COLOR: purple">http://scholar.google.com/cita<WBR>tions?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</SPAN></A></SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(68,84,106); FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">Dick Stoute [<A
href="mailto:dick.stoute@gmail.com" target=_blank><SPAN
style="COLOR: purple">mailto:dick.stoute@gmail.com</SPAN></A>]<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space><WBR> </SPAN><BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Monday,
December 19, 2016 12:48 PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target=_blank><SPAN
style="COLOR: purple">loet@leydesdorff.net</SPAN></A><BR><B>Cc:</B><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN>James
Peters;<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:ulan@umces.edu" target=_blank><SPAN
style="COLOR: purple">ulan@umces.edu</SPAN></A>; Alex Hankey; FIS
Webinar<BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re:
[Fis] What is information? and What is life?</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">List,<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Please allow me to respond to
Loet about the definition of information stated below.
<U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">1. the definition
of information as uncertainty is counter-intuitive ("bizarre"); (p.
27)</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">I agree. I
struggled with this definition for a long time before realising that Shannon
was really discussing "amount of information" or the number of bits needed
to convey a message. He was looking for a formula that would provide
an accurate estimate of the number of bits needed to convey a message and
realised that the amount of information (number of bits) needed to convey a
message was dependent on the "amount" of uncertainty that had to be
eliminated and so he equated these. </SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">It makes sense to
do this, but we must distinguish between "amount of information" and
"information". For example, we can measure amount of water in liters,
but this does not tell us what water is and likewise the measure we use for
"amount of information" does not tell us what information is. We can, for
example equate the amount of water needed to fill a container with the
volume of the container, but we should not think that water is therefore
identical to an empty volume. Similarly we should not think that
information is identical to uncertainty.</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">By equating the
number of bits needed to convey a message with the "amount of uncertainty"
that has to be eliminated Shannon, in effect, equated opposites so that he
could get an estimate of the number of bits needed to eliminate the
uncertainty. We should not therefore consider that this equation
establishes what information is. </SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"></SPAN><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956gmail-m-7620727072806746849gmail-m-3869641630998968668msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif">Dick</SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">On 18 December 2016 at 15:05,
Loet Leydesdorff <<A href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="COLOR: purple">loet@leydesdorff.net</SPAN></A>>
wrote:<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in">Dear James and colleagues,<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in">Weaver (1949) made two major remarks about his
coauthor (Shannon)'s contribution:<U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in">1. the definition of information as uncertainty is
counter-intuitive ("bizarre"); (p. 27)<U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in">2. "In particular, information must not be confused
with meaning." (p. 8)<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in">The definition of information as relevant for a
system of reference confuses information with "meaningful information" and
thus sacrifices the surplus value of Shannon's counter-intuitive
definition.<U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in">information observer<U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in">that integrates interactive processes such
as<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in">physical interactions such photons stimulating
the retina of the eye, human-machine interactions (this is the level that
Shannon lives on), biological interaction such body temperature relative to
touch ice or heat source, social interaction such as this forum started by
Pedro, economic interaction such as the stock market, ... [Lerner, page
1].<U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in">We are in need of a theory of meaning. Otherwise,
one cannot measure meaningful information. In a previous series of
communications we discussed redundancy from this
perspective.<U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in">Lerner introduces mathematical expectation E[Sap]
(difference between of a priory entropy [sic] and a posteriori entropy),
which is distinguished from the notion of relative information Iap (Learner,
page 7).<U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><IMG
id=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m_5557051252754959792gmail-m_-3470337822677402956A9F2940A-D3C6-420C-812B-0677A2C75A63
height=36 src="cid:3B9DAFDD045842E09F288B1DCE38D29B@PCdeJoseph" width=140
border=0></SPAN>) expresses in bits of information the information generated
when the a priori distribution<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><IMG
id=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m_5557051252754959792gmail-m_-3470337822677402956889C2055-D82E-4E62-88FE-CB1C16FBD1F4
height=27 src="cid:4F9B7E64EF464EE2931831B064CDD927@PCdeJoseph" width=46
border=0></SPAN>is turned into the a posteriori one<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri,sans-serif"><IMG
id=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m_5557051252754959792gmail-m_-3470337822677402956A015F5AE-316B-40AC-8F18-CDF4EC18885A
height=27 src="cid:59DE6F48D6A844F5BDD0BD02C2C141D3@PCdeJoseph" width=50
border=0></SPAN>. This follows within the Shannon framework without needing
an observer. I use this equation, for example, in my 1995-book<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>The
Challenge of Scientometrics</I><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN>(Chapters
8 and 9), with a reference to Theil (1972). The relative information is
defined as the<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN><I>H</I>/<I>H</I>(max).<U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in">I agree that the intuitive notion of information is
derived from the Latin “in-formare” (Varela, 1979). But most of us do no
longer use “force” and “mass” in the intuitive (Aristotelian) sense.<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: wingdings">J</SPAN><SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN>The
proliferation of the meanings of information if confused with “meaningful
information” is indicative for an “index sui et falsi”, in my opinion. The
repetitive discussion lames the progression at this list. It is “like asking
whether a glass is half empty or half full” (Hayles, 1990, p. 59).<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in">This act of forming forming an information
process results in the construction of an observer that is the owner
[holder] of information.<U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in">The system of reference is then no longer the
message, but the observer who provides meaning to the information
(uncertainty). I agree that this is a selection process, but the variation
first has to be specified independently (before it can be
selected.<U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1.5in">And Lerner introduces the threshold between
objective and subjective observes (page 27). This leads to a
consideration selection and cooperation that includes
entanglement.<U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in">I don’t see a direct relation between information
and entanglement. An observer can be entangled.<U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in">Best,<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN><U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in">Loet<U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in">PS. Pedro: Let me assume that this is my second
posting in the week which ends tonight. L.<U></U><U></U></P>
<P
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956m6893889769850668776msoplaintext
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><BR>______________________________<WBR>_________________<BR>Fis
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target=_blank><SPAN
style="COLOR: purple">Fis@listas.unizar.es</SPAN></A><BR><A
href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="COLOR: purple">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bi<WBR>n/mailman/listinfo/fis</SPAN></A><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><BR><BR
clear=all><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">--<SPAN
class=gmail-m_1195894050892560507m_-2941523153689883601m5557051252754959792gmail-m-3470337822677402956apple-converted-space> </SPAN><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 1in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><BR>4
Austin Dr. Prior Park St. James, Barbados BB23004<BR>Tel: <A
href="tel:(246)%20421-8855" target=_blank>246-421-8855</A><BR>Cell: <A
href="tel:(246)%20243-5938"
target=_blank>246-243-5938</A><U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">______________________________<WBR>_________________<BR>Fis
mailing list<BR></SPAN><A href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; COLOR: purple; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">Fis@listas.unizar.es</SPAN></A><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif"><BR></SPAN><A
href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis"
target=_blank><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt; COLOR: purple; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica,sans-serif">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bi<WBR>n/mailman/listinfo/fis</SPAN></A><U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><BR>______________________________<WBR>_________________<BR>Fis
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es"
target=_blank>Fis@listas.unizar.es</A><BR><A
href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis"
target=_blank>http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bi<WBR>n/mailman/listinfo/fis</A><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><BR><BR
clear=all><U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">--
<U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Dr. Mark William
Johnson<BR>Institute of Learning and Teaching<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Faculty of Health and Life
Sciences<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">University of
Liverpool<U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Phone: 07786 064505<BR>Email:
<A href="mailto:johnsonmwj1@gmail.com"
target=_blank>johnsonmwj1@gmail.com</A><BR>Blog: <A
href="http://dailyimprovisation.blogspot.com"
target=_blank>http://dailyimprovisation.blog<WBR>spot.com</A>
<U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><BR>______________________________<WBR>_________________<BR>Fis
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es"
target=_blank>Fis@listas.unizar.es</A><BR><A
href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis"
target=_blank>http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bi<WBR>n/mailman/listinfo/fis</A><U></U><U></U></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><BR><BR
clear=all><U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><U></U><U></U> </P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">-- <U></U><U></U></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in">Professor Terrence W.
Deacon<BR>University of California,
Berkeley<U></U><U></U></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>______________________________<WBR>_________________<BR>Fis
mailing list<BR><A href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es"
target=_blank>Fis@listas.unizar.es</A><BR><A
href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target=_blank
rel=noreferrer>http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bi<WBR>n/mailman/listinfo/fis</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all>
<DIV><BR></DIV>-- <BR>
<DIV class=gmail_signature>Professor Terrence W. Deacon<BR>University of
California, Berkeley</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Fis mailing
list<BR>Fis@listas.unizar.es<BR>http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis<BR></BODY></HTML>