<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hello Loet, Bob U, Alex et alia - I agree with Bob U when he wrote "<font face="Calibri, sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 15px;" class="">The problem is that information is not an absolute.” As I have stated </span></font><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;" class="">before </span><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 15px;" class="">on this list information is relative and depends on the context.</span></font><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And I agree with Loet when he wrote, "<font face="Calibri, sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Different systems of reference, of course, can attribute different meanings to the same information.</span><span style="font-size: 15px;" class="">”</span></font><br class=""><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;" class=""> </span> In fact McLuhan expressed Loet's thought long ago with the one-liner: "The user is the content” Applying this idea to Shannon’s original paper might explain why we have so many definitions of information as each reader of his original paper has their own interpretation of Shannon because as McLuhan said "the user is the content”. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">For this user, Shannon information theory should be called Shannon signal theory as Shannon himself said his theory was not concerned with meaning only the accuracy of sending a signal from point A to point B. What does information without meaning mean anyway? </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I enjoy these conversations about the meaning of information and even wrote a book on the subject entitled What Is Information? (Available for free at <a href="http://demopublishing.com" class="">demopublishing.com</a>) but I get the feeling we are like the dog chasing its own tail. I agreed with Bob U’s point <span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px;" class="">that information is not an absolute </span>and then I agreed with Loet’s disagreement with Bob U’s point. Talk about a dog chasing its tail. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And if this is not enough consider another McLuhan one-liner: "The medium is the message” in which he suggests that there is additional information in the medium that carries the signals from point A to point B independent of those signals. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">cheers - Bob L</div><div class=""><div class=""><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class="">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; line-height: normal; border-spacing: 0px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><br class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><br class=""></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><div class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">______________________</span></div></div></div></span></span></span></span></span></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><div class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><br class=""></span></div>Robert K. Logan</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: 12px; ">Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto </span><div class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: 12px; ">Fellow University of St. Michael's College</span></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: 12px; ">Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: 12px; "><a href="http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan" class="">http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan</a></span><div style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><a href="http://www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan" class="">www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan</a></span></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><a href="http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications" class="">www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications</a></span><br class=""><div style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; " class=""><br class=""></div></span></div></div></div></span></div></span></div></div></span></div></span></div></span></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=""><div><div class="">On Dec 18, 2016, at 2:16 AM, Loet Leydesdorff <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" class="">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The problem is that information is not an absolute. The same code when measured against different references (English vs. Spanish in this case) will yield different measures. It's the obverse of the Third Law of Thermodynamics. See <<a href="http://people.clas.ufl.edu/ulan/files/FISPAP.pdf" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none;" class="">http://people.clas.ufl.edu/ulan/files/FISPAP.pdf</span></a>><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Dear Bob,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="" class="">It seems to me that you confuse information with what information means for a system of reference. Different systems of reference, of course, can attribute different meanings to the same information.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="" class="">@Alex: this confusion is unfortunately pervasive. Unlike Shannon-type information, “information” is often defined (following Bateson and McKay) as “a difference which makes a difference”, without articulation that the second difference presumes the specification of a system of reference.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="" class="">A series of differences of the first type can be considered as a probability distribution that contains uncertainty. “A difference which makes a difference”, however, can be considered as “meaningful information”. In my opinion, this “meaningful information” should not be equated with information because one then uses the same word for two different things and thus generates confusion.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="" class="">Best,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="" class="">Loet<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><hr size="3" width="100%" align="center" class=""></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Loet Leydesdorff<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Professor, University of Amsterdam<br class="">Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" title="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue;" class="">loet@leydesdorff.net<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue;" class="">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</span></a><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""></span><span style="font-size: 9pt;" class="">Associate Faculty,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: blue;" class="">SPRU,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></a><span style="font-size: 9pt;" class="">University of Sussex;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt;" class="">Guest Professor<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: blue;" class="">Zhejiang Univ.</span></a><span style="font-size: 9pt;" class="">, Hangzhou; Visiting Professor,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: blue;" class="">ISTIC,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></a><span style="font-size: 9pt;" class="">Beijing;<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt;" class="">Visiting Professor,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a name="_GoBack" class=""></a><a href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: blue;" class="">Birkbeck</span></a><span style="font-size: 9pt;" class="">, University of London;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: blue;" class="">http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Fis mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a></div></div><br class=""></div></div></div></body></html>