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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Pedro,</div>
<br>
your wise comments are no less inspiring for me than the last
comments by Loet, namely that the concept of information is
'relative' to each context (and therefore 'objective' with regard to
such context). This happens with other concepts too, of course. I
said this in my PhD (1978). Then Fleissner and Hofkirchner created
what they called "Capurro's trilemma" that is well known in this
list. Loet's remarks on the contextual relativity is a solution
(better: a dissolution) of the trilemma. But this does not mean that
we might like to make analogies, equivocies and univocities from
time to time that can be also useful or inspiring.<br>
<br>
The oriental thinkers you refer to, remember me what I discovered
during and after out last meeting in Vienna, that helped me to
question my own presuppositions (blindness) concerning the
'metaphysical' concept of 'in-formatio' I analized in 1978. I prefer
not to quote this in extenso but just raise you attention (maybe
your curiosity) to pp. 8 ss of this paper: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.capurro.de/icil2016.pdf">http://www.capurro.de/icil2016.pdf</a><br>
<br>
I still think that the concepts of message/messenger and translation
(trans-lation, tra-ducción, Über-setzen) (DNA etc.) is a key issue
for biology (and not only for biology). I say this without all your
knowledge regarding biology.<br>
<br>
If after twenty years (I remember our meeting in Vienna in 1995)
discussing this concept we can say that at least we were able to
question again and again our presuppositions and this is the spirit
of science (and philosophy).<br>
<br>
best<br>
<br>
Rafael<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:5ce987af-abe6-c588-45e4-05ac8a6c4003@capurro.de"
type="cite">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> <br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:bec1fcc5-5a2a-1a0a-70fe-0a4b90142858@aragon.es"
type="cite">
<blockquote
cite="mid:80a309f5-5132-7f26-b2e0-96bea7f5ad32@capurro.de"
type="cite">
<blockquote
cite="mid:eb96c452-70d0-4411-4c12-f9cd3b603f30@aragon.es"
type="cite">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Arturo and FISers<br>
<br>
We will forgive your life! Some other people in this list
also have strong reservations to a single, canonical
approach to information, either from Shannon, Boltzmann,
or Fisher backgrounds. In my case, mostly biologically and
socially grounded ("sociotype"), I see a complex panorama
of biological information, mostly "relative" concerning
communication with the environment (via cellular signaling
systems), but sort of "objective" concerning the inner
self-production processes (shared DNA and
genetic/translation and many other codes). But both are
elegantly intertwined in the advancement of a life cycle.
My hunch is that this type of relative/objective duality
culminating in existential maintenance has some generality
and could be "exported" to physics too. It is curious that
some oriental thinkers (Chu-Hsi or Zhu Xi, 9 Centuries
ago) had already advanced sort of similar ideas... Well,
above all, info is "paradoxical" and has kept all of us
amused in this list, at least for the past twenty years! <br>
<br>
Best--Pedro<br>
PS. Let me remind that you have not answered yet my
topo-evo comments in the earliest messages. That point is,
I think, very important in the present discussion.<br>
<br>
El 11/12/2016 a las 16:57, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:tozziarturo@libero.it">tozziarturo@libero.it</a>
escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:278554947.4048001481471846833.JavaMail.httpd@webmail-25.iol.local"
type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpFirst" style="text-align:justify"><br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US">Dear
FISers, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US">I know
that some of you are going to kill me, but there’s
something that I must confess. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US">I
notice, from the nice issued raised by Francesco
Rizzo, Joseph Brenner, John Collier, that the main
concerns are always energetic/informational
arguments and accounts. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US">Indeed,
the current tenets state that all is information,
information being a real quantity that can be
measured through informational entropies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US">But… I
ask to myself, is such a tenet true?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US">When I
cook the pasta, I realize that, by my point of view,
the cooked pasta encompasses more information than
the not-cooked one, because it acquires the role of
something that I can eat in order to increase my
possibility to preserve myself in the hostile
environment that wants to destroy me. However, by
the point of view of the bug who eats the non-cooked
pasta, my cooked pasta displays less information for
sure. Therefore, information is a very subjective
measure that, apart from its relationship with the
observer, does not mean very much… Who can state
that an event or a fact displays more information
than another one?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US">And,
please, do not counteract that information is a
quantifiable, objective reality, because it can be
measured through informational entropy…
Informational entropy, in its original Shannon’s
formulation, stands for an ergodic process (page 8
of the original 1948 Shannon’s seminal paper), i.e.:
every sequence produced by the processes is the same
in statistical properties, or, in other words, a
traveling particle always crosses all the points of
its phase space. However, in physics and biology,
the facts and events are never ergodic. Statistical
homogeneity is just a fiction, if we evaluate the
world around us and our brain/mind. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US">Therefore,
the role of information could not be as fundamental
as currently believed. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US">P.S.:
topology analyzes information by another point of
view, but it’s an issue for the next time, I think…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpMiddle"
style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:107%;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<br>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpFirst"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-add-space:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:115%;mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;
text-align: start;"><font face="courier new,
monospace"><b>Arturo Tozzi</b></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpFirst"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-add-space:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:115%;mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none"><span
style="line-height: 115%;"><font face="courier new,
monospace">AA Professor Physics, University North
Texas</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpFirst"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-add-space:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:115%;mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;
text-align: start;"><font face="courier new,
monospace">Pediatrician ASL Na2Nord, Italy</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpFirst"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-add-space:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:115%;mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none"><span
style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;
text-align: start;"><font face="courier new,
monospace">Comput Intell Lab, University Manitoba</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormalCxSpFirst"
style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-right:0cm;
margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0cm;mso-add-space:auto;text-align:justify;
line-height:115%;mso-layout-grid-align:none;text-autospace:none"><font
face="courier new, monospace"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/"
style="font-size: 14px; color: rgb(5, 68, 126);
line-height: normal; text-align: start;">http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/</a><span
style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;
text-align: start;"> </span></font><br>
</p>
</div>
<br>
<br>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------------------------- </pre>
<br>
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Fis mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro
Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany
Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org">http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org</a>)
Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa.
Chair, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://icie.zkm.de">http://icie.zkm.de</a>)
Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.i-r-i-e.net">http://www.i-r-i-e.net</a>)
Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany
E-Mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rafael@capurro.de">rafael@capurro.de</a>
Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21)
Homepage: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.capurro.de">www.capurro.de</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
------------------------------------------------- </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro
Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany
Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org">http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org</a>)
Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa.
Chair, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://icie.zkm.de">http://icie.zkm.de</a>)
Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.i-r-i-e.net">http://www.i-r-i-e.net</a>)
Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany
E-Mail: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rafael@capurro.de">rafael@capurro.de</a>
Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21)
Homepage: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.capurro.de">www.capurro.de</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro
Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany
Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org">http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org</a>)
Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa.
Chair, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://icie.zkm.de">http://icie.zkm.de</a>)
Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.i-r-i-e.net">http://www.i-r-i-e.net</a>)
Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany
E-Mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rafael@capurro.de">rafael@capurro.de</a>
Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21)
Homepage: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.capurro.de">www.capurro.de</a>
</pre>
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