<HTML><BODY><p style="margin-top: 0px;" dir="ltr">Dear Gordana,<br> Thanks for your wise comment.</p>
<p dir="ltr">You say: "It is vital to be aware under which assumption model/theory has been made".<br> It is an old statement, that reminds me the axiomatic fundations of Hilbert and the linguistic jokes of the second Wittgenstein: neuroscientists start from a theory-laden model, e.g., a linguistic joke, where a series of axioms are preventively stated, then they find, through experimental procedures, what they want to find. <br> To make an example: "The brain is a non-linear system at the edge of chaos"... or, at the opposite: "The brain is linear"... there are dozens of papers confirming both the approaches! </p>
<p dir="ltr">We want clearly state that we do not know anything about the brain: also the more successful current models, such as the connectome approaches, do not explain anything at all.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Indeed, we do not know how to define consciousness, emotions, perception, and so on. Neuroscientists say that we need to be on focus on a single brain activity (even if we do not know which are the brain activities!). I think this is an hopeless approach, unless we do not have a very GENERAL scheme of the brain function.<br> Therefore, due to our current lack of knowledge, we need something different: we need a model that, in a "physicalistic" fashion, is not able to explain a single brain function, but all the brain functions. <br> We need to explore something completely different. </p>
<p dir="ltr">We admit that ours is a linguistic joke like others, but, to avoid to be "metaphysical", we propose how to test our own linguistic joke, in order to experimentally assess whether it is the "real" one. <br> The advantage of our approach is that it holds for all the "brain functions", therefore it can be assessed and falsified by starting either from emotions, or cognition, and so on. <br> We have also the advantage that our approach is multidisciplinary: we "glue together" issues from far-flung branches, like a bird who watches a landscape from afar. We do not know whether our linguistic joke is just a fake, but, at least, we are pursuing SCIENTIFICAL, testable hypotheses that are different from the standard ones. <br><br></p>
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<p dir="ltr">--<br> Inviato da Libero Mail per Android</p>
</div>sabato, 26 novembre 2016, 08:31PM +01:00 da Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic <a href="mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdh.se">gordana.dodig-crnkovic@mdh.se</a>:<br><br><blockquote id="mail-app-auto-quote" style="border-left:1px solid #85AF31; margin:0px 0px 0px 10px; padding:0px 0px 0px 10px;" cite="14801898290000025353">
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<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3">Dear colleagues,</font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3"> </font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3">Krassimir makes very important point that I would like to expand on.</font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3"> </font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3">It is vital to be aware under which assumption model/theory has been made. One might wish that this be accepted as a fundamental rule among researchers presenting their models – first declare fundamental assumptions
(preferably also implicit ones).</font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3"> </font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3">Only if we clearly understand the assumptions can we compare different models and approaches. What happens all too often is that this fundamental part is unclear and big discussions are taking place for no reason
as theories are built under different assumptions and refer to different domains, have different level of abstraction etc. but they are assumed to somehow give the same results.</font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3"> </font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3">For example if we make our models under assumption that light has corpuscular nature, we will see certain classes of phenomena. On the contrary, if we assume that it is a wave, we will see something else.</font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3"> </font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3">The same goes even here. We should see the assumptions and ask ourselves:</font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3"> </font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3">What does it imply if we assume that consciousness is a continuous function of reflected reality?</font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3"> </font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3">What does it imply if assume that consciousness is Euclidean n-space?</font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3"> </font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3"> </font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3">With best wishes,</font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3">Gordana</font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3"> </font></p>
<p ><font face="Avenir" size="3"> </font></p>
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<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"><font size="2" face="Avenir-Book">Gordana Dodig Crnkovic, Professor of Computer Science</font></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"><font size="2" face="Avenir-Book">Vice Dean of Graduate Education</font></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"><font size="2" face="Avenir-Book">Department of Applied IT</font></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"><font size="2" face="Avenir-Book">Chalmers University of Technology & University of Gothenburg, Sweden </font></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"><font size="2" face="Avenir-Book"><a href="http://www.ait.gu.se/kontaktaoss/personal/gordana-dodig-crnkovic" target="_blank" >http://www.ait.gu.se/kontaktaoss/personal/gordana-dodig-crnkovic</a>/ </font></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"><font size="2" face="Avenir-Book">School of Innovation, Design and Engineering, Mälardalen University</font></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"><font size="2" face="Avenir-Book"><a href="http://www.mrtc.mdh.se/~gdc" style="color: purple;" target="_blank" >http://www.mrtc.mdh.se/~gdc</a>/</font></div>
<div style="font-family: -webkit-standard;"><font size="2" face="Avenir-Book">President of the International Society for Information Studies </font></div>
<div><font face="Avenir" size="2"><a href="http://is4si-2017.org" target="_blank" >http://is4si-2017.org</a>/</font></div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Fis <<a href="//e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3afis%2dbounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" >fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>> on behalf of Krassimir Markov <<a href="//e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3amarkov@foibg.com" target="_blank" >markov@foibg.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Organization: </span>ITHEA<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span>Krassimir Markov <<a href="//e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3amarkov@foibg.com" target="_blank" >markov@foibg.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Saturday 26 November 2016 at 18:23<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>FIS <<a href="//e-aj.my.com/compose/?mailto=mailto%3afis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" >fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[Fis] Who may proof that consciousness is an Euclidean n-space ???<br>
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<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Dear FIS colleagues,</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">I think, it is needed to put discussion on mathematical foundation. Let me remember that:</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"></font> </p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman"><font size="4">The <b>Borsuk–Ulam theorem</b> (BUT), states that every
</font><a title="Continuous function" style="href: 'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_function'"><strong><font size="4">continuous function</font></strong></a><font size="4"> from an
</font><a title="N-sphere" style="href: 'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-sphere'"><font size="4"><i>n</i>-sphere</font></a><font size="4"> into
</font><a title="Euclidean space" style="href: 'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_space'"><strong><font size="4">Euclidean
<i>n</i>-space</font></strong></a><font size="4"> maps some pair of </font><a title="Antipodal point" style="href: 'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipodal_point'"><font size="4">antipodal points</font></a><font size="4"> to the same point.
</font></font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Here, two points on a sphere are called antipodal if they are in exactly opposite directions from the sphere's center.</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Formally: <strong>if</strong> <span><span style="display: none">f:
<em>S<sup> n</sup>→
R</em><sup>n</sup> </span></span><strong>is</strong>
<strong>continuous</strong> then there exists an <span><span style="display: none">x∈
S n </span></span> such that:
<span><span style="display: none">f(
− x ) = f
( x )</span></span>.</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">[ </font><a title="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borsuk%E2%80%93Ulam_theorem" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borsuk%E2%80%93Ulam_theorem" target="_blank" ><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borsuk%E2%80%93Ulam_theorem</font></a><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">
] </font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"></font> </p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman"><font size="4">Who may proof that consciousness is a
</font><a title="Continuous function" style="href: 'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_function'"><font size="4" newroman=""><strong>continuous function</strong></font></a><font size="4" newroman=""> from reflected
reality ???</font></font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman"><font size="4">Who may proof that consciousness is an
</font><a title="Euclidean space" style="href: 'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_space'"><font size="4" newroman=""><strong>Euclidean
<i>n</i>-space</strong></font></a><font size="4" newroman=""> ???</font></font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman" newroman="">After proving these statements we may think further.</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"></font> </p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Yes, discussion is interesting but, I am afraid, it is not so scientific.</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"></font> </p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Friendly regards</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman">Krassimir</font></p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"></font> </p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"></font> </p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"></font> </p>
<p><font size="4" face="Times New Roman"></font></p>
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