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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Christophe and FIS Colleagues,<br>
<br>
In my second cent of the week, let me thank for the positive
comments on the presentation. You raise a very interesting point
that can be analyzed from quite different angles. Strategically,
my opinion is that information science (or information studies)
should not abandon its tight interrelationship with humanities,
because we are too weak to loose an important allied at the time
being, and because most of the humanities' contents are excellent
manifestations of combinatory-informational-symmetrical games. The
series of meetings regularly organized by our Symmetry Institute
colleagues are showing that interweaving very elegantly. How to
tell a story, the nucleus of drama, poetry, novels, movie making,
and all sort of "narratives", is one of the bulwarks to be won
"informationally". Intelligence as the efficient organization of
information flows around adaptive purposes in the advancement of a
life cycle should not be so far from attempting some explanation
of what a story is: a condensate of human communication (quite
interesting the recent book by Randy Olson: Houston we have a
narrative. Why science needs story. 2015). Maybe in the next
session on brain dynamics and topology we could find some further
connection with this topic.<br>
Another different reason to strengthen the link with humanities
would be to consider that they are in themselves closer to the
"social" domain, and that Great Domains should not be multiplied,
so that they not loose their integrative appeal. And also, if we
let things speak by themselves, what would be the most cogent
interpretation of the contents the disciplinary-citation maps are
showing? Initially Rosenbloom proposed the three leaves "clover"
(demanding extra room for the computational), I have advocated the
four leaves (substituting for the informational), and you were
arguing the five leaves... That's fine. In part, the
interpretation depends on the further goals, and we both are
sharing the societal concern. I think discussion on this vision of
the Great Domains may be important for the future cohesion of
information studies in front of the enormous power of the
technological world and the tunnel vision their new means of
communication are imprinting on our societies (Brexit, USxit, and
so on)... <br>
<br>
All the best<br>
--Pedro<br>
<br>
El 17/11/2016 a las 16:31, Christophe escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:HE1PR0201MB1994C65B9368D42F103D38878CB10@HE1PR0201MB1994.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com"
type="cite">
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charset=windows-1252">
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<p><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; font-family: "Segoe
UI", sans-serif; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);
background-image: initial; background-position: initial;
background-size: initial; background-repeat: initial;
background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial;
background-clip: initial;">Dear Pedro, <br>
Thanks for the copy of your ICIS 2016 presentation which
covers a lot of evolutionary aspects regarding intelligence
and the information flow.
<br>
Perhaps one aspect of that subject may deserve a bit more.
It is “human mind”. <br>
For instance, your chart (N°39) on the four domains of
science (physical, biological, social, informational) could
contain a 5<sup>th</sup> component: “humanities” in order to
explicitly take into account human mind. This because it is
a key step in the evolution of our universe (energy, matter,
life, human mind) that cannot be today deduced from the
other domains. And also because an understanding of human
mind could introduce possible evolutions of human
motivations for the better of mindkind (you remember the
evolutionary scenario where the proposed interactions of
anxiety management with self-consciousness introduce
possibilities for new understandings on human nature in
terms of motivations and actions. I think (and hope) that
human evolution is not over and this is in the direction of
sheding some light on a possible maturing of human
self-consciousness for the better of mankind). (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://philpapers.org/rec/MENPFA-3" id="LPlnk751190"
previewremoved="true">http://philpapers.org/rec/MENPFA-3</a>).
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target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;">Christophe
Menant, Proposal for an evolutionary approach ...</a></div>
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philpapers.org</div>
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Christophe Menant (2010). Evolutionary Advantages of
Inter-Subjectivity and Self-Consciousness Through
Improvements of Action Programs (2010).
Dissertation, Tucson ...</div>
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<br>
<br>
Best <br>
Christophe
<br>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font
style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
color="#000000"><b>De :</b> Fis
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"><fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es></a> de la part de Pedro
C. Marijuan <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"><pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es></a><br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> jeudi 17 novembre 2016 14:09<br>
<b>À :</b> 'fis'<br>
<b>Objet :</b> [Fis] Intelligence & Meaning &
The Brain</font>
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<div class="PlainText">Dear FIS Colleagues,<br>
<br>
Herewith the dropbox link to the Chengdu's presentation
on Intelligence <br>
and the Information Flow (as kindly requested by
Christophe and Gordana).<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wslnk41c3lquc55/AADpm_U6xuhm6jHK0esyN-29a?dl=0"
id="LPlnk656338" previewremoved="true">https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wslnk41c3lquc55/AADpm_U6xuhm6jHK0esyN-29a?dl=0</a><br>
<br>
About the ongoing exchanges on language and meaning,
there could be some <br>
additional arguments to consider:<br>
<br>
1. Evolutionary origins of language (Terry can say quite
a bit about <br>
that). It is difficult to establish a clear stage into
which well formed <br>
oral language would have emerged. That the basis was
both gestural <br>
(Susan Goldin Meadow) and emotional utterances seems to
be more and more <br>
accepted. Alarm calls for instance in some monkeys
contain distinct <br>
sound codes that clearly imply an associated meaning on
what is the <br>
specific predator to take care of (aerial, felines,
snakes) with <br>
differentiated behavioral escape responses in each case.
Pretty more <br>
complex in human protolanguages.<br>
2. Nervous Systems functioning. The action-perception
cycle in advanced <br>
mammals would be the engine of information processing
and meaning <br>
generation. The advancement of the life cycle would be
the source and <br>
sink of the communicative exchanges and the ultimate
reference for <br>
meaning. (This connects with the info flows and
intelligence of my <br>
presentation).<br>
3. Human "sociotype" maintenance. As the natural social
groups of humans <br>
grew out of proportion regarding other Anthropoidea (see
Dunbar's <br>
number), a new form of "grooming" and group consensus
was established <br>
around language and other emotional utterances
(importance of laughter). <br>
Paradoxically, language's meaning becomes downsized to
the level of <br>
small talk, just chattering to keep social bonds
afloat. The "social <br>
brain hypothesis" on the origins of language developed
by Robin Dunbar <br>
and other scholars points in this direction.<br>
<br>
In my opinion, points 1 and 3 have already appeared in
this list. But <br>
point 2 has been very rarely discussed among us (how the
brain <br>
fabricates meaning). So, tentatively, the next
discussion session will <br>
deal with some of this neurodynamic stuff (in
preparation yet: "The <br>
Topological Brain"). In the meantime, Maybe Mark would
like to make some <br>
concluding comments in order to close the present
session... Thanks are <br>
due to him both for his preparation-work and for his
patience regarding <br>
all the tangents in this session!<br>
<br>
Best wishes<br>
--Pedro<br>
<br>
<br>
El 16/11/2016 a las 15:51, Dai Griffiths escribió:<br>
> Many (most?) linguistic interactions are not
propositional in the <br>
> sense that you imply.<br>
><br>
> There is no verifiable equivalent to opening the
fridge door for <br>
> utterances like "Cool", "Give us a hand won't you",
"You're welcome", <br>
> "Justin Bieber is wonderful", "You go and sneak in
round the back <br>
> while I distract them at the front door", and so
on.<br>
><br>
> So I doubt your 'usually', and the application to
natural language.<br>
><br>
> Dai<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 15/11/16 15:05, Bruno Marchal wrote:<br>
>> A model is a mathematical structure making a
sentence (proposition) <br>
>> true or false, and this, in my opinion applies
to meaning in the <br>
>> natural language, where usually some notion of
reality is involved: <br>
>> the proposition "there is two beers in the
fridge" is judged <br>
>> meaningful because we believe in a reality with
fridge containing, or <br>
>> not, beers.<br>
><br>
<br>
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The FIS initiative (Foundations of
Information Science) started in 1994 with a
first meeting in Madrid (organized by
Michael Conrad and Pedro Marijuan), and was
...</div>
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