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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">More on Quantum information and emergent spacetime, this time by</span>
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
Erik P. Verlinde:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a href="https://arxiv.org/abs/1611.02269">Emergent Gravity and the Dark Universe</a><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There is a less formal review at<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><a href="http://m.phys.org/news/2016-11-theory-gravity-dark.html">http://m.phys.org/news/2016-11-theory-gravity-dark.html</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I consider the idea very speculative, as I have seen no work on information within a spacetime boundary except for this sort of work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Of course, meaning need not apply. I doubt that it is bounded by language, but it at least has to be representational. Perhaps more
is also required. I am reluctant to talk of meaning when discussing the semiotics of biological chemicals, for example, but could not find a better word. A made up word like Deacon’s “entention” might work best, but it still would not apply to the physics
cases, even though the information in the boundaries in all cases but the internal information one can tell you about the spacetime structure within the boundary. That seems to me that it is like smoke to fire: smoke doesn’t mean fire, despite the connection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D">John Collier<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D">Emeritus Professor and Senior Research Associate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D">Philosophy, University of KwaZulu-Natal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D"><a href="http://web.ncf.ca/collier"><span style="color:#0563C1">http://web.ncf.ca/collier</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0D0D0D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Fis [mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Loet Leydesdorff<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, 12 November 2016 9:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Alex Hankey' <alexhankey@gmail.com>; 'FIS Webinar' <Fis@listas.unizar.es><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Dear Alex and colleagues,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Thank you for the reference; but my argument was about “meaning”. “Meaning” can only be considered as constructed in language. Other uses of the
word are metaphorical. For example, the citation to Maturana.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Information, in my opinion, can be defined content-free (a la Shannon, etc.) and then be provided with meaning in (scholarly) discourses. I consider
physics as one among other scholarly discourses. Specific about physics is perhaps the universalistic character of the knowledge claims. For example: “Frieden's points apply to quantum physics <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">as well as classical physics.“ So what? This seems to me a debate within physics without much relevance for non-physicists (e.g., economists or linguists).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Loet<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">
<hr size="3" width="100%" align="center">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Loet Leydesdorff
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Professor, University of Amsterdam<br>
Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" title="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">loet@leydesdorff.net
</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">;
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><a href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">
<br>
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Associate Faculty,
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><a href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">SPRU,
</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">University of Sussex;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Guest Professor
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><a href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Zhejiang Univ.</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">,
Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><a href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">ISTIC,
</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Beijing;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Visiting Professor,
</span><a name="_GoBack"></a><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><a href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Birkbeck</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">,
University of London; <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><a href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> Alex Hankey [<a href="mailto:alexhankey@gmail.com">mailto:alexhankey@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, November 12, 2016 8:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Loet Leydesdorff; FIS Webinar<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Is quantum information the basis of spacetime?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Dear Loet and Fis Colleagues, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Are you aware of Roy Frieden's <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">'Physics from Fisher Information'. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">His book was published in the 1990s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">I consider it a very powerful statement. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Ultimately everything we can detect at <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">both macroscopic and microscopic levels <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">depends on information production from <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">a quantum level that forms Fisher Information. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Frieden's points apply to quantum physics <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">as well as classical physics. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Best wishes, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">Alex Hankey <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US">On 12 November 2016 at 18:56, Loet Leydesdorff <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Dear Marcus,
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">When considering things in terms of "functional significance" one must confront the need to address "meaning" in terms of both the living and the physical . . . and their necessarily entangled nature.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">“Meaning” is first a linguistic construct; its construction requires interhuman communication. However, its use in terms of the living and/or the physical is metaphorical.
Instead of a discourse, one can this consider (with Maturana) as a “second-order consensual domain” that functions AS a semantic domain without being one; Maturana (1978, p. 50):
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">“In still other words, if an organism is observed in its operation within a second-order consensual domain, it appears to the observer
<b>as if</b> its nervous system interacted with internal representations of the circumstances of its interactions, and as if the changes of state of the organism were determined by the semantic value of these representations. Yet all that takes place in the
operation of the nervous system is the structure-determined dynamics of changing relations of relative neuronal activity proper to a closed neuronal network.”</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Failing to "make that connection" simply leaves one with an explanatory gap. And then, once connected, a further link to "space-time" is also easily located . . .</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="color:#44546A"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Yes, indeed: limiting the discussion to the metaphors instead of going to the phore (that is, language and codification in language) leaves one with an explanatory gap.
Quantum physics, for example, is a highly specialized language in which “mass” and “information” are provided with meanings different from classical physics.</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Best,
</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A">Loet</span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:72.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="color:#44546A"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:36.0pt">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#44546A"> </span><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Alex Hankey M.A. (Cantab.) PhD (M.I.T.)<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif"><a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/00796107/119/3" target="_blank"><span style="color:#1155CC">2015 JPBMB Special Issue
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