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Andrei, maybe the concept of message as already used by Shannon and
Weaver in specific engineering contexts (this must not be always the
case) is more appropriate and also able to speak about 'information'
as what is 'in' a message 'for' a receiver. Best. Rafael<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:2C2DC064-C47C-47AC-9FCB-7A8895D4AC4F@physics.utoronto.ca"
type="cite">Hello Andrei - I am with you - sharing you sentiment.
Information only pertains to living organisms and entails some
signals that help them make a choice. A black hole makes no
choices - it is ruled by the laws of physics. Abiotic systems have
no information. A book is a set of signals that a reader can
convert into information if they know the language which the book
is written. A book written in Urdu contains no information for me
other than this appears to be a set of signals that contains
information for a reader in the language in which this book was
written. Who reads a black hole. How does it contain information
that makes a difference. When we launch a satellite to orbit the
earth we do not say that the sun is informing the satellite how to
behave. The satellite is just following the laws of physics. It
has no choice and so it is not being informed. There are many
different forms of information (biotic and Shannon as found in the
2007 paper <span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;"
class="">Propagating Organization:
An Inquiry by </span><span style="font-family: Calibri;
font-size: 16px;" class="">Kauffman, Logan et al. in </span><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">Biology
and Philosophy 23: 27-45)</span><!--EndFragment--> so we do
not need to complicate things even more by ascribing the laws of
physics as the communication of information.
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<div class=""><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; ">______________________</span></div>
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Robert K. Logan</span><span class="Apple-style-span"
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12px; ">Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of
Toronto </span>
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College</span></div>
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<div>
<div class="">On Nov 4, 2016, at 4:17 AM, Andrei Khrennikov
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:andrei.khrennikov@lnu.se" class="">andrei.khrennikov@lnu.se</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class=""> Dear all, <br class="">
I want to comment so called information approach to
physics, by speaking with hundreds of leading experts<br
class="">
in quantum foundations, I found that nobody can define
rigorously the basic term "information" which is so widely
<br class="">
used in their theories and discussions, the answers are as
"information is the basic entity" which cannot be defined
<br class="">
in other terms. Well, my impression is that without novel
understanding and definition of information all these
"theories" <br class="">
are practically empty, well very good mathematical
exercises. May be I am too critical... But I spent so much
time by trying <br class="">
to understand what people are talking about. The output is
ZERO.<br class="">
<br class="">
all the best, andrei <br class="">
<br class="">
Andrei Khrennikov, Professor of Applied Mathematics,<br
class="">
Int. Center Math Modeling: Physics, Engineering,
Economics, and Cognitive Sc.<br class="">
Linnaeus University, Växjö, Sweden<br class="">
My RECENT BOOKS:<br class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/p1036"
class="">http://www.worldscientific.com/worldscibooks/10.1142/p1036</a><br
class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.springer.com/in/book/9789401798181">http://www.springer.com/in/book/9789401798181</a><br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.panstanford.com/books/9789814411738.html">http://www.panstanford.com/books/9789814411738.html</a><br
class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cambridge.org/cr/academic/subjects/physics/econophysics-and-financial-physics/quantum-social-science">http://www.cambridge.org/cr/academic/subjects/physics/econophysics-and-financial-physics/quantum-social-science</a><br
class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.springer.com/us/book/9783642051005">http://www.springer.com/us/book/9783642051005</a><br class="">
<br class="">
________________________________________<br class="">
From: Fis [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>] on behalf of
Gyorgy Darvas [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:darvasg@iif.hu">darvasg@iif.hu</a>]<br class="">
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2016 10:23 PM<br class="">
To: John Collier; fis<br class="">
Subject: Re: [Fis] Is quantum information the basis of
spacetime?<br class="">
<br class="">
John:<br class="">
The article describes very really the conflicting
attitudes. Interesting to see the diverse arguments
together.<br class="">
I agree, some think so, some do not. I do the latter, but
this does not make any matter.<br class="">
Gyuri<br class="">
<br class="">
On 2016.11.03. 19:52, John Collier wrote:<br class="">
Apparently some physicists think so.<br class="">
<br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tangled-up-in-spacetime/?WT.mc_id=SA_WR_20161102">https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tangled-up-in-spacetime/?WT.mc_id=SA_WR_20161102</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
John Collier<br class="">
Emeritus Professor and Senior Research Associate<br
class="">
Philosophy, University of KwaZulu-Natal<br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://web.ncf.ca/collier">http://web.ncf.ca/collier</a><br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
_______________________________________________<br
class="">
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro
Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany
Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org">http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org</a>)
Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa.
Chair, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://icie.zkm.de">http://icie.zkm.de</a>)
Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.i-r-i-e.net">http://www.i-r-i-e.net</a>)
Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany
E-Mail: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rafael@capurro.de">rafael@capurro.de</a>
Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21)
Homepage: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.capurro.de">www.capurro.de</a>
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