<div dir="ltr">Cari Michel e cari tutti,<div>finalmente si comincia a capire che la legge fondamentale della vita, esistenza e conoscenza, è INFORMAZIONE, inclusa la neg-entropia, non l'entropia. Ciò si evince dalla mia ricerca scientifica da circa quarant'anni: anche dai miei libri e contributi alla rete Fis, da quando ho conosciuto ad Acireale (Catania) Pedro.</div><div>Un abbraccio augurale.</div><div>Francesco</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-07-28 10:30 GMT+02:00 Michel Godron <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:migodron@wanadoo.fr" target="_blank">migodron@wanadoo.fr</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>my replies are in red<br>
</p>
<div>Bien reçu votre message.
MERCI.
Cordialement.
M. Godron</div><span class="">
<div>Le 27/07/2016 à 13:23, Pedro C.
Marijuan a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Dear Joseph,<br>
<br>
I finally went through that video, in part stimulated by your
critical comments. My impression, particularly at the beginning
of the talk, was positive: that the fundamental physical reality
might partake of a similar organization to life is quite
congruent with the "informational" point of view.</div>
</blockquote>
</span><font color="#ff0000">I quite agree, and the first chapter of <i>Ec</i><i>ologie
et Evolution du monde vivant </i>explains why "Life is a
transmission of information" including thermodynamical entropy. <br>
</font><span class="">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font color="#ff0000"> </font>I was
strongly reminded of Michael Conrad's: "When we look at a
biological system we are looking at the face of the underlying
physics of the universe." This was in Madrid 1994, at the
foundational conference of FIS. Well, perhaps some aspects of
the last part of that talk were not so well focused in my view,
but at least always appeared open to argumentation if I properly
interpret the style and the context. Does a not so well-solved
part destroy a whole direction of thought? I think we must be
open to the give and take, and contribute to salvage the best
parts of interesting speculations (if that's the case here),
even for our own intellectual interest. Couldn't our own common
fis enterprise be toughly criticized in similar grounds? Just to
conclude, I am reminded of one of the most famous short essays
by philosopher Ortega y Gasset, it was about the "frame", just
the frame of any painting ("Meditación del Marco" was the title
in Spanish). Sholarship is able to create exciting
reflections/discussions... on anything. <br>
So, addressed to all FIS colleagues, why we don't accept this
new discussion challenge?<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span><font color="#ff0000">I should be glad to participate ! <br>
Could you tell me if another french scientist partipates to FIS ?<br>
M. Godron</font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="">
<div> <br>
Friendly regards<br>
--Pedro<br>
<font size="+2"><br>
</font>El 13/07/2016 a las 19:15, Joseph Brenner escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><font face="Arial">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><font size="2">Dear Pedro,<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><u></u><font size="2"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><font size="2">Most
of us would agree that standard Western science does
not give a complete answer to questions about life and
mind. As we try to seek better foundations in general
and for information science in particular, we may be
able to benefit from knowledge resources which have
not been fully exploited, those of the 'Past' and
those of the ‘East’. I myself have written a paper
suggesting that a metalogical rejunction is possible
in which logic recovers its original status as
inclusive of all other disciplines. As Brian Josephson
writes in the Abstract of one of his lectures,
“Eastern mystics may have relevance to scientific
understanding.” Fritjof Capra explored such parallels
in his important 1967 book <i>The Tao of
Physics.</i><span> </span>However,
many interpretations of what mysticism is are
possible.<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><u></u><font size="2"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><font size="2">There
is a further major <i>caveat </i>to keep in mind: there are
different ways of understanding “what is missing” in
science (see Terence Deacon’s discussion of
information) and what kind of additions could be made.
On the one hand, we may legitimately associate quantum
fluctuations with Indian (not Eastern) ideas of things
continuously moving in and out of existence. On the
other, as we have discussed in connection with
Conrad’s ‘fluctuons’ at least once in the FIS Group,
it may NOT be correct to say that such fluctuations
are or can carry meaningful information.<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><u></u><font size="2"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><font size="2">Recent
postings to the FIS list have been made by people
associated with a project embedded in a major
university (<u></u><u></u>Cambridge<u></u>, <u></u>UK<u></u><u></u>),
the “Matter-Mind Unification Project”, now the “Theory
of Condensed Matter Group” which Josephson has
directed. This effort has sought and still seeks to
incorporate doubtful, self-confirming forms of Western
thought and activity. <span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><font size="2">Personally, I do not wish to be
associated with the Circular Theory of Ilexa
Yardley, in which “the core dynamic is the
conservation of a circle”, which is a
misunderstanding of dynamics. I do not wish to
accept nature as controlled by some “Master
Algorithm”, any more than I do Peircean Thirdness.
I do not wish to be associated with paranormal
phenomena, cold fusion and observer created
reality, all of which are part of Josephson’s
project.<u></u><u></u></font></span></font></span></p>
<font size="2"><u></u><u></u></font>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><u></u><font size="2"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><font size="2">A
characteristic of this thought is its dogmatism of
completeness, a theory of everything, in which things
are linked by a “subtler dimension which we have
identified with the Platonic realm” (Yardley). One
might argue that the Tao is also a theory of
everything that also sees things linked in a way
different from that of, say, chemical bonds. The major
difference is that understanding the Tao does not
require abrogating science in order to replace it by a
self-serving ideology. Deacon has characterized the
‘homunculi’ and ‘golems’, disguised as physical
principles, that interfere with thought; ‘wishful
thinking’ is the most charitable term that can be
applied. <u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><u></u><font size="2"> </font><u></u></span><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><u></u><font size="2"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><font size="2">Other
FIS members may find these ideas harmless, perhaps
even amusing. I consider them perversions of thought
by people with an agenda of control. The one positive
result of these postings has been to cause me to
re-examine the assumptions in the logic of the
included middle of Stéphane Lupasco. This as some of
you know is the basis of my ‘Logic in Reality’ and its
Principle of Dynamic Opposition (critical formulation
by Lupasco <i>ca.
</i>1951). I conclude that no new and doubtful
physical concepts need to be introduced to address the
essential aspects of life, mind and information. That
information has ‘dual aspects’ has been more or less
explicit in everything I have tried to write in the
last eight years. But these concepts are not simple;
one cannot use the principles of quantum mechanics
directly. Hence I do not expect to find a large
audience nor, to be frank, a large market. I simply
hope they may deserve some more discussion on the FIS
list.<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><u></u><font size="2"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><font size="2">Best
wishes,<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><u></u><font size="2"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><font size="2">Joseph
<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
</font></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. <a href="tel:%2B34%20976%2071%203526" value="+34976713526" target="_blank">+34 976 71 3526</a> (& 6818)
<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
-------------------------------------------------
</pre>
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