<div dir="ltr">Shannon was dealing with the problem of mutually compatible encodings such as comes up in the theory of cyphers etc, and arises in the control of machines a la Wiener. He adopted the term 'Information Theory' at the suggestion of Jon Von Neumann, and everyone accepted the appellation.<div><br></div><div>What an encoding means, and how you interpret it, is, from this perspective, a largely secondary question. What decision(s) do you make? </div><div><br></div><div>Wellington referred to the key message that enabled him to win one of his battles in the Peninsular War (Salamanca if i remember rightly) as 'an intelligence'. </div><div><br></div><div>I would suggest (albeit as an outsider) that these terms should be allowed to stick. The quantified mathematical physical vehicle is 'information', while the interpreted message on the basis of which decisions are taken - 'Fight' (as in Wellington (then Sir John Wellesley)'s case), or 'Flight' (as in the case of the French Marshal opposing him) is 'intelligence'. </div><div><br></div><div>Then 'intelligence' equals 'information' PLUS the semiotic / semantic component. </div><div><br></div><div>BUT the quantified 'information' concept tells you precisely the number of <u>independent</u> decisions a given amount of <u>information</u> can give rise to. </div><div><br></div><div>In light of these thoughts, please can anyone tell me the following. The above discussion has slithered into a discussion that implicitly includes 'purpose' - teleology is implied in this transition from information to intelligence. </div><div><br></div><div>Yet teleology is always said to be inconceivable from the perspective of causality in physics. And even in quantum theory, no one has resolved this issue as far as I know. </div><div><br></div><div>On the other hand, the discussions of semiotics, particularly 'Cyber-semiotics', aired in this group earlier by Soren Brier, are redolent with teleological implications. So WHAT IS GOING ON? </div><div><br></div><div>Do these thought lead anyone to any constructive comments?</div><div>Best wishes to all,</div><div><br></div><div>Alex </div><div> </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 9 July 2016 at 00:31, Rafael Capurro <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rafael@capurro.de" target="_blank">rafael@capurro.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Alex<br>
a main problem I see with Brillouin (the same as with Shannon)<br>
<a href="https://www.bibnum.education.fr/calculinformatique/theorie-de-l-information/naissance-de-la-theorie-de-l-information" target="_blank">https://www.bibnum.education.fr/calculinformatique/theorie-de-l-information/naissance-de-la-theorie-de-l-information</a><br>
is that he speaks about the transmission of information (with
regard to Shannon), while in fact it is a message and not
'information' that is being transmitted.<br>
This quid pro quo is amazing in a scientist like Brillouin who is
interested in the exact definition of concepts. Shannon's theory
is called A mathematical theory of communication (not: of
information). <br>
Rafael<br>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">John, I read the English translation of Science and
Information theory in 1976 and was profoundly influenced by it.
I started doing so because I was trying to understand conscious
awareness at that time, and it struck me that information theory
was the closest thing to it in science at the time. (not being
impressed much by S's cat etc.)
<div>So you see it took 40 years thought for me to get to where
I am now. Even in 2008 when I had 90% of my present theory
worked out, I was not formulating it as a new theory of
information.</div>
<div>Reading and re-rereading (!) Shear and Chalmers was central
to that. And the fluid Reynolds number analogy which led me to
see that I did indeed have a genuine 'Double Aspect'
information theory of just the right kind.</div>
<div>Alex</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 8 July 2016 at 20:37, John Collier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Collierj@ukzn.ac.za" target="_blank">Collierj@ukzn.ac.za</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-CA">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_7973233712290833133_m_-9115177545001213115__MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Comment
inserted below yours.</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">John
Collier</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Professor
Emeritus and Senior Research Associate</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">University
of KwaZulu-Natal</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><a href="http://web.ncf.ca/collier" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://web.ncf.ca/collier" target="_blank">http://web.ncf.ca/collier</a></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext" lang="EN-US"> Fis [mailto:<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michel Godron<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, 08 July 2016 4:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>; <a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank">loet@leydesdorff.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Essential Core?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<span>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>My responses are in red</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bien reçu votre message.
MERCI. Cordialement. M. Godron</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Le 08/07/2016 à 14:42, Pedro
C. Marijuan a écrit :</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear FIS Colleagues,<br>
<br>
Some brief responses to the different parties:<br>
<br>
Marcus: there were several sessions dealing
with info physics, where I remember some
historical connotations with mechanics
emerged. Mostly 1998 and 2002 chaired by
Koichiro Matsuno and 2004 by Michel Petitjean.
Afterwards the theme has surfaced relatively
often. About the present possibilities for a
UTI, my opinion is that strictly remaining
within Shannon's and anthropocentric discourse
boundaries there is no way out.
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red">Yes,
but it is not the same with Brillouin's
information : I could send to you a text in
French which gives a demonstration of the
convergence between that information and
thermodynamical neguentropy. Since twenty years,
I did not find an english review which was
interested by this problem, because I am
biologist and the biological reviews were not
interested.
</span></p>
</span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">[John
Collier] I agree. I have read only an English
translation of Science and Information Theory.
I read it as an undergrad, and it has strongly
influenced my views. It is unfortunate, I
think, that it hasn’t influenced English
speaking scientists much. I have also seen
some bad misreadings of what he was saying.</span></i></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><pre cols="72">--
Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro
Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany
Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (<a href="http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org" target="_blank">http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org</a>)
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</pre>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">Alex Hankey M.A. (Cantab.) PhD</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"> (M.I.T.)<br>Distinguished Professor of Yoga and Physical Science,<br>
SVYASA, Eknath Bhavan, 19 Gavipuram Circle<br>
Bangalore 560019, Karnataka, India <br>Mobile (Intn'l): +44 7710 534195 </span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"></span><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse">Mobile (India) +91 900 800 8789</span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;border-collapse:collapse"><div style="font-size:12.8px">____________________________________________________________</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br></span></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/00796107/119/3" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">2015 JPBMB Special Issue on Integral Biomathics: Life Sciences, Mathematics and Phenomenological Philosophy</a></span></div></span></div></div></div></div>
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