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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">That is one limited way to think of information . It is reasonably precise, which is an advantage. But ignores
and in fact rules out other usages that share important basic properties, suggesting a unified notion that goes well beyond the narrow usage you prefer, Krassimir.
<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">John Collier<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Associate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">University of KwaZulu-Natal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">http://web.ncf.ca/collier<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Fis [mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Krassimir Markov<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 28 June 2016 8:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FIS <fis@listas.unizar.es><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Fis] Progress on black hole information paradox<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Dear Francesco,</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Thank you for the polite words!</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">In addition to your explanation, I have to point that, from mine point of view, we have principally and opposite understandings of the concept information.</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Your position is that the information is primary and matter and energy are secondary, i.e. information created both of them.</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">My understanding is that the information is
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">a kind of reflection</span></strong> in the material entities but
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">not every reflection is information</span></strong>.</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">The “<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">reflection</span></strong>” is internal structural of functional difference which has been created after
an interaction between entities.</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Only living creatures may operate with reflections in their consciousness.</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">In other words, the “<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">information</span></strong>” is a reflection in the consciousness for which in the same
consciousness there exist <strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">evidence</span></strong>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">what the refection reflects</span></strong>.
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Friendly regards</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Krassimir</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">PS: This is my second post for this week.
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Next half month I will spend on Summer Session of ITHEA International Conferences (<a href="http://www.ithea.org/conferences/itaf2016.htm">http://www.ithea.org/conferences/itaf2016.htm</a>).</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Because of this I shall be silent till middle of July.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Have nice and happy summer!</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">
<a href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com" title="13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com">
Francesco Rizzo</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> Tuesday, June 28, 2016 8:29 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">
<a href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" title="markov@foibg.com">Krassimir Markov</a> <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> Re: [Fis] Progress on black hole
information paradox<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Cari John, Krassimir e Tutti,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">informazione è un infinito o molteplice modo di prendere forma (neg-entropia), dis-informazione è un infinito o molteplice modo di perdere forma (entropia). Con il mio processo
di tras-in-formazione, cuore della "Nuova economia", consistente nell'immissione (input) di materia, energia e informazione e nell'emissione (output) di materia, energia e informazione in stati diversi, ho capito 20 anni prima di S. Hawking, pur essendo un
economista, che la sua teoria non funzionava. Lui è arrivato alle mie, modeste, stesse conclusioni nel 2004-2005. Inoltre energia e materia non sono altro che due tipi di informazione, quindi l'unica o fondamentale legge dell vita e della scienza è l'INFORMAZIONE.
Questo ora stanno incominciando a conoscerlo od ammetterlo tanti, ma io l'ho sempre pensato, scritto e proposto agli economisti che sono spesso duri di cervice come l'apostolo Pietro. Non mi dilungo ad esporre i dettagli o particolari di questa problematica
contenuti almeno in una dozzina di miei libri, a proposito soprattutto dell'indeterminazione quantistica e dell'indeterminazione gravitazionale.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Ad onor del vero sono stato stimolato a trasmettere questa e-mail molto, troppo, sintetica dal problema the black-hole-infromation-paradox presentato e suggerito in modo magnifico
da John Collier e dalla domanda di Krassimir Markov, altrettanto notevole, "qualcuno, lui/lei non immagina cosa sia informazione". Mille grazie a tutti e due e a a tutti Voi che sopportate il mio (essere) italiano.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Un abbraccio veramente affettuoso e riconoscente.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Francesco<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">2016-06-28 19:00 GMT+02:00 Krassimir Markov <<a href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" target="_blank">markov@foibg.com</a>>:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Dear John and FIS Colleagues,</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">The main paradox of the “black hole information paradox” is that maybe someone knows what is the “black hole” but in the same time he/she has no imagination what
is “information”.</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Friendly regards</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Krassimir</span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">
<a href="mailto:Collierj@ukzn.ac.za" target="_blank" title="Collierj@ukzn.ac.za">
John Collier</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> Tuesday, June 28, 2016 2:01 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">
<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank" title="fis@listas.unizar.es">
fis</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:whitesmoke"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"> [Fis] Progress on black hole information
paradox<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Not solved yet, as method applies only EM radiation, and not to gravity (where the real problem lies in any case).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">I note that the problem can be stated properly only by using information theory (or something that is equivalent – same models).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"><a href="http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2016/jun/08/soft-hairs-help-resolve-the-black-hole-information-paradox" target="_blank">http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2016/jun/08/soft-hairs-help-resolve-the-black-hole-information-paradox</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">John Collier<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Associate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black">University of KwaZulu-Natal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"><a href="http://web.ncf.ca/collier" target="_blank">http://web.ncf.ca/collier</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis" target="_blank">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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