<div dir="ltr"><div>Pedro,</div><div>It is amazing to see Figure 6 (Prototypical signaling pathways of multicellularity) and imagine the academic path that led to this product.</div><div>It is (no doubt) a result of interdisciplinary work between engineering, Biology and Information Science.</div><div><br></div><div>Pedro can you send the reference of this image?</div><div><br></div><div>Kind regards</div><div>Moisés.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2016-04-28 9:49 GMT-03:00 Pedro C. Marijuan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Dear Alex and colleagues,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the opportunity to ad a few lines on signaling matters.
I would not discard any organizational aspect of signaling
pathways. I have put below a diagram that approaches the dynamics
of some major ones.Your analogy with mobile phones would be right,
provided that conversations were mixed, that a number of receivers
were just random, and that a component of "experience information"
would be entered too --I think it can apply to the dynamics of
second messengers, where multitudes of microevents and pathways
may be integrated via lots of feedbacks (See the box in the figure
below). Symmetry is a big word concerning the organization of
pathways in the construction of multicellular development...
opposed paths, tipping points, collective (populational) symmetry
breakings, massive feedbacks, etc. <br>
<br>
By the way, when we commented days ago on Tononi's phi, both from
John Collier and myself, the idea was to consider it as applied to
the closure of meaning episodes in language. How "getting" the
meaning of some linguistic episode (eg, a joke) provokes a sudden
change of transient connectivity between areas... <br>
<br>
Apart from meaning, it may also be interesting that there seems to
be a strong asymmetry in between the incoming / outgoing
information flows--the "social info loops" around. In most human
organizations, the ratio is in between 3 and 4. It means that you
and me are ordered by upper levels in around 80 % of our
exchanges, while what we send upwards becomes a meager 20 %. It is
from a statistics on business communication metrics. The
generalization is far from direct, but maybe it would occur in the
cells too--amazingly there is very little literature on cellular
"signal emission".<br>
<br>
Anyhow, <big><big><small><small>how the whole ascending and
descending info flows give raise to all the varieties of
organizational complexity is a fascinating problem,<br>
<br>
All the best--Pedro <br>
</small></small><br>
<br>
<br>
</big></big><big><big>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><img src="cid:part1.05060504.02080301@aragon.es" height="299" width="527"></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:6.0pt;text-align:justify;text-justify:inter-ideograph"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB">Figure
6: Prototypical signaling
pathways of multicellularity.</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-GB">
From left to right, a stimulus in
the intercellular space binds to a transmembrane receptor
(sensor) on its
extracellular domain. Upon binding, the receptor undergoes
a transient
modification of its cytoplasmic domain; this effect
triggers a transient
modification of a series of proteins in the cell, each one
acting as an
intermediate in the signal transduction pathway (signal
processing), with
characteristic hierarchies of protein kinases and second
messengers. The last
components are actuators or effectors that activate or
inhibit proteins and
channels that control several cellular functions, notably
gene expression by
means of transcriptional switches that may interact with
several coactivator
partners. The whole biochemical changes produced in the
cell represent the
response to the received signal —its <i>molecular
<span>meaning</span></i>.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<br>
</big></big><br>
<br>
El 26/04/2016 a las 10:10, Alex Hankey escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Pedro,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you for the comments on my presentation, and
particularly for reminding us all that life transmits
information of many different kinds by very specific and
selective processes in chemical signally molecules. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I must confess that I had assumed that such kinds of
signals could be considered special cases of digital
information analogous to the codes transmitted by a digital
signalling tower in a mobile telephone network, where the
initial code has to name the device that the rest of that
message section is meant to receive. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In mobile phone systems, individual devices are sent
information by identifiers. If we have a nervous system
working with several neurotransmitters, or a cell signalling
system working with a number of cytokines, each with a
specific regulatory influence / purpose, are these individual
items not performing in ways that are covered by the usual
combination of Wiener and Shannon, and therefore in principle
understood, and AS YOU SPECIFICALLY POINT OUT, with no
particular "experience" component. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I wonder whether the material I transmitted made the
following point succinctly / precisely enough: </div>
<div>David Chalmers specifically hypothesized that 'experience
information' (my terminology) mst have a double aspect, and
that the 'loop' arising from criticality specifically fulfils
his hypothesis in a new and potent way. </div>
<div>(The material contains so many points that this, to my
mind, really significant one may have got buried.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you also for appreciating the amplification of
Tononi's contribution </div>
<div>(Tononi, I personally regard as of real significance). The
internal loop creates </div>
<div>the internal coherence that is required to form the
'integrated information'. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have a suspicion that the following propositions are
probably correct:</div>
<div>a. any information structure that is truly 'non-reductive' </div>
<div>(Chalmers requirement 3) must possess long range
coherence. </div>
<div>b. any information structure with long-range coherence will
be a form of integrated information.</div>
<div>c. Hence Chalmers requirement 3 in fact specifies
integrative information.</div>
<div>This sequence a, b, c simplifies what those writing in the
1990's were saying:</div>
<div>they were in fact setting equivalent requirements on the
form of 'experience information'</div>
<div>(though Tononi undoubtedly thought he was saying something
different, as did those who followed up on his work, and
Chalmers did not realize that Tononi's proposal was equivaent
to the point that he had proposed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anyone's thoughts on this would be very much appreciated,</div>
<div>All best wishes, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alex</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote><span class="">
<pre cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. <a href="tel:%2B34%20976%2071%203526" value="+34976713526" target="_blank">+34 976 71 3526</a> (& 6818)
<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
-------------------------------------------------
</pre>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Moisés André Nisenbaum<br>Doutorando IBICT/UFRJ. Professor. Msc.<br>Instituto Federal do Rio de Janeiro - IFRJ<br>Campus Rio de Janeiro<br><a href="mailto:moises.nisenbaum@ifrj.edu.br" target="_blank">moises.nisenbaum@ifrj.edu.br</a></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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