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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Pedro and all,<br>
<br>
these are some thoughts on phenomenology of life:<br>
<a href="http://www.capurro.de/patent.html">http://www.capurro.de/patent.html</a><br>
best<br>
Rafael<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:572206DD.4060706@aragon.es" type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Alex and colleagues,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the opportunity to ad a few lines on signaling
matters. I would not discard any organizational aspect of
signaling pathways. I have put below a diagram that approaches
the dynamics of some major ones.Your analogy with mobile phones
would be right, provided that conversations were mixed, that a
number of receivers were just random, and that a component of
"experience information" would be entered too --I think it can
apply to the dynamics of second messengers, where multitudes of
microevents and pathways may be integrated via lots of feedbacks
(See the box in the figure below). Symmetry is a big word
concerning the organization of pathways in the construction of
multicellular development... opposed paths, tipping points,
collective (populational) symmetry breakings, massive feedbacks,
etc. <br>
<br>
By the way, when we commented days ago on Tononi's phi, both
from John Collier and myself, the idea was to consider it as
applied to the closure of meaning episodes in language. How
"getting" the meaning of some linguistic episode (eg, a joke)
provokes a sudden change of transient connectivity between
areas... <br>
<br>
Apart from meaning, it may also be interesting that there seems
to be a strong asymmetry in between the incoming / outgoing
information flows--the "social info loops" around. In most human
organizations, the ratio is in between 3 and 4. It means that
you and me are ordered by upper levels in around 80 % of our
exchanges, while what we send upwards becomes a meager 20 %. It
is from a statistics on business communication metrics. The
generalization is far from direct, but maybe it would occur in
the cells too--amazingly there is very little literature on
cellular "signal emission".<br>
<br>
Anyhow, <big><big><small><small>how the whole ascending and
descending info flows give raise to all the varieties of
organizational complexity is a fascinating problem,<br>
<br>
All the best--Pedro <br>
</small></small><br>
<br>
<br>
</big></big><big><big>
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inter-ideograph;tab-stops:0cm"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
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lang="EN-GB">Figure 6: Prototypical signaling pathways
of multicellularity.</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB" lang="EN-GB">
From left to right, a stimulus in the intercellular
space binds to a transmembrane receptor (sensor) on its
extracellular domain. Upon binding, the receptor
undergoes a transient modification of its cytoplasmic
domain; this effect triggers a transient modification of
a series of proteins in the cell, each one acting as an
intermediate in the signal transduction pathway (signal
processing), with characteristic hierarchies of protein
kinases and second messengers. The last components are
actuators or effectors that activate or inhibit proteins
and channels that control several cellular functions,
notably gene expression by means of transcriptional
switches that may interact with several coactivator
partners. The whole biochemical changes produced in the
cell represent the response to the received signal —its
<i style="mso-bidi-font-style:normal">molecular <span
style="mso-bidi-font-style:italic">meaning</span></i>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<br>
</big></big><br>
<br>
El 26/04/2016 a las 10:10, Alex Hankey escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAKGpHcja_0PO27_0nYz-s4R++PScwZ9qvr1v=mbRYQ2w4niYnA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div dir="ltr">Dear Pedro,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you for the comments on my presentation, and
particularly for reminding us all that life transmits
information of many different kinds by very specific and
selective processes in chemical signally molecules. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I must confess that I had assumed that such kinds of
signals could be considered special cases of digital
information analogous to the codes transmitted by a digital
signalling tower in a mobile telephone network, where the
initial code has to name the device that the rest of that
message section is meant to receive. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In mobile phone systems, individual devices are sent
information by identifiers. If we have a nervous system
working with several neurotransmitters, or a cell signalling
system working with a number of cytokines, each with a
specific regulatory influence / purpose, are these
individual items not performing in ways that are covered by
the usual combination of Wiener and Shannon, and therefore
in principle understood, and AS YOU SPECIFICALLY POINT OUT,
with no particular "experience" component. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I wonder whether the material I transmitted made the
following point succinctly / precisely enough: </div>
<div>David Chalmers specifically hypothesized that 'experience
information' (my terminology) mst have a double aspect, and
that the 'loop' arising from criticality specifically
fulfils his hypothesis in a new and potent way. </div>
<div>(The material contains so many points that this, to my
mind, really significant one may have got buried.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you also for appreciating the amplification of
Tononi's contribution </div>
<div>(Tononi, I personally regard as of real significance).
The internal loop creates </div>
<div>the internal coherence that is required to form the
'integrated information'. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have a suspicion that the following propositions are
probably correct:</div>
<div>a. any information structure that is truly
'non-reductive' </div>
<div>(Chalmers requirement 3) must possess long range
coherence. </div>
<div>b. any information structure with long-range coherence
will be a form of integrated information.</div>
<div>c. Hence Chalmers requirement 3 in fact specifies
integrative information.</div>
<div>This sequence a, b, c simplifies what those writing in
the 1990's were saying:</div>
<div>they were in fact setting equivalent requirements on the
form of 'experience information'</div>
<div>(though Tononi undoubtedly thought he was saying
something different, as did those who followed up on his
work, and Chalmers did not realize that Tononi's proposal
was equivaent to the point that he had proposed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anyone's thoughts on this would be very much appreciated,</div>
<div>All best wishes, </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alex</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
-------------------------------------------------
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro
Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany
Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org">http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org</a>)
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