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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><small>Dear FIS Colleagues,<br>
<br>
A brief note on the variety of exchanges. It is quite intriguing
that fundamental questions on mathematics (geometry/algebra),
computation, quantum mechanics, and biology converge on a pretty
similar "information stuff". Considering the social sciences
domain too, where information becomes obvious (helas, too
obvious to inquire on it!), the timeliness of our discussions is
exciting.<br>
<br>
I disagree about putting "meaning" outside the scope of natural
sciences. The current bio-info revolution concerning omic
disciplines, evo-devo, ecology, etc. has stumbled upon meaning
although most often in empirical, applied domains. What does
mean this or that signal? Gene knockouts, microarrays,
computational inference, etc. provide a massive response that
has to be interpreted functionally via the new ontologies.
Perhaps most theoretical interpretations have gone towards the
"in silico" worlds and bio-computational perspectives, but there
is plenty of stirring in most fields. <br>
<br>
In neuroscience, a similar revolution has been occurring,
although perhaps at a slower pace, via all the advancements in
imaging, connectomics, massive modeling procedures, etc. Meaning
is explicitly considered by authors such as Edelman, Fuster,
Berthoz, Dehaene, Tononi, Sporns, Frinston, etc. Well, one would
like to see how the different notions of info, meaning, memory,
knowledge, etc. are elegantly cohered, articulated, and well
connected --in my view, always around the advancement of a life
cycle. And that should also include the origins and evolutionary
path of nervous systems (curiously, they did not appear for info
concerns but for osmotic/trophic functions). <br>
<br>
In both biological and neuronal sciences, this enterprise of
linking the advancement of a life cycle with the communication
with the environment needs philosophical commitment too, as the
itinerary is full of "provincial" ways of thinking that have
created artificial borders to the intercommunication of ideas.
Some parties have argued that a new info philosophy should be
framed, and that should include contribution of the closest
schools of thinking (perspectivism/phenomenology for my personal
taste).<br>
<br>
The convergence with physics does not look so far away (as has
been properly claimed by some discussants). Self-production via
communication with the environment by assemblages of excitable
elements, counting with algorithmic devices that mirror how the
inner and outer worlds coalesce, in one case genomes and in the
other mystical or Platonic "laws of nature" (what strange
existentiality do they have!), may finally represent a common
panorama.</small><br>
<br>
<big><big><small><small><small>About the ways and means to
overcome the complexity crisis that surrounds even the
more modest steps in the information adventure... I have
no idea (but to establish a shield with basic consensus
in "principled" matters). <br>
</small></small><br>
<small><small>Best regards--Pedro</small> </small></small><br>
</big></big><br>
El 07/04/2016 a las 13:05, Christophe escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:VI1PR02MB1037B51870C8621FF34150708C900@VI1PR02MB1037.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;line-height:115%;mso-ansi-language:
EN-US"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Dear Soren,
</span><br style="font-size: 12pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">To avoid a possible
misunderstanding let me say that the MGS has no ambition
to reach a ’full Peircean semiotic framework’.</span><br
style="font-size: 12pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">The Meaning Generator System
has been designed to introduce what looked to me as
missing in the young ‘science of cognition’ in the mid
90’s. ‘Meaning’ was a key concept without any model for
meaning generation in an evolutionary perspective. The MGS
was designed to fill the gap. At that time I did not know
about Peirce (was at IBM on very different subjects).
Information on Peirce work came in later.
</span><br style="font-size: 12pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">The MGS has some
compatibility with the Peircean approach as both rely on
interpretation. But two key points of the MGS are not
really present in the Peircean framework: the evolutionary
story from animals to humans and the development of a
meaning generation process (Peirce tells about the
generated meaning (the Interpretant) but does not tell
much about a meaning generation process (the
Interpreter)).
</span><br style="font-size: 12pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">So my question about the MGS
as a possible introduction to the concepts of meaning and
experience is not to be understood as strictly part of the
Perceian semiotic framework. And the question is still
being asked.</span><br style="font-size: 12pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">Best </span><br
style="font-size: 12pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">Christophe </span></span></p>
<br>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>De :</b>
Søren Brier <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sb.ibc@cbs.dk"><sb.ibc@cbs.dk></a><br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mercredi 6 avril 2016 02:04<br>
<b>À :</b> 'Christophe'<br>
<b>Cc :</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br>
<b>Objet :</b> SV: [Fis] _ DISCUSSION SESSION:
INFOBIOSEMIOTICS</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Dear Christophe</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Never the less we consider that cats
and dogs or dolphins –I have played with them all – to
have an inner experimental life in order also to
support their perceptual skills for instance and they
have memory and recognition capabilities.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">I do appreciate that you work with
these things and try to move your modelling more
towards a Peircean biosemiotic paradigm. But in what I
have seen from you so far I do not think you have
moved to a full Peircean semiotic framework.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">But even if, then biosemiotics is
certainly not (yet?) accepted as a natural science,
which for instance is the reason that Barbieri left
biosemiotics and is trying to establish his own
code-biology. </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">But of cause we need to work with
growing amounts and quality of awareness.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D">Frederick Stjernfelt sometimes with
Kalevi Kull and Jesper Hoffmeyer has tried to flesh
out a hierarchy of semiotics levels in the plant and
animal kingdoms in several articles.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> Best
</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> Søren</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<br>
</div>
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</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
-------------------------------------------------
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