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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear fis list:<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It is impossible to have a system that does not have some order in it. Even a mathematically random collection has regions the are ordered. So order itself
is hardly miraculous, given that there is something. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I agree with Gordana that the question of why there is something rather than nothing is currently, and on any projection of current understanding, inexplicable.
Invoking God doesn’t help (why God, rather than nothing?). It would be nice to be able to show that some being is necessary, but so far all attempts (and there are many in history of thought) have failed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">John Collier<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Associate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">University of KwaZulu-Natal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">http://web.ncf.ca/collier<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Fis [mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 22 February 2016 12:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> loet@leydesdorff.net; 'Bruno Marchal'; 'fis Science'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Fis] Miracles and Natural Order Fis Digest, Vol 23, Issue 24<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">To me the miracle is not so much order, as it is relation, and thus as Loet says “order is always constructed (by us)”-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">but the miracle is the very existence of anything (us, the rest of the universe).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Why there is something rather than nothing (that would be much simpler)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">To me miracle is how it all started. From vacuum fluctuations? But where the vacuum comes from?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">But then, why should we call it a miracle? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Perhaps the better name is just natural law, finally equally inexplicable and given, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">but sounds more general and less mystic.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Gordana<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Fis <<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>> on behalf of Loet Leydesdorff <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>><br>
<b>Organization: </b>University of Amsterdam<br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>"<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday 22 February 2016 at 20:36<br>
<b>To: </b>'Bruno Marchal' <<a href="mailto:marchal@ulb.ac.be">marchal@ulb.ac.be</a>>, 'fis Science' <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 23, Issue 24<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">All worldviews begin in a miracle. No exceptions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">I agree. Nevertheless, we should, and can, minimize the miracle. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#44546A"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">Why would one need a worldview? The whole assumption of an order as a Given (in a Revelation) is religious. Order is always constructed (by us) and can/needs to
be explained. </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">No “harmonia praestabilita”, but ex post. No endpoint omega. No cosmology, but chaology.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">With due respect for those of you who wish to hold on to religion or nature as a given; however, vaguely defined.
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">Best,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A">Loet</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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