<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 11.00.9600.18163"></HEAD>
<BODY id=role_body style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; COLOR: #000000"
bottomMargin=7 leftMargin=7 rightMargin=7 topMargin=7><FONT id=role_document
color=#000000 size=2 face=Verdana>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Pedro,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>re: Do we need a new interpretation of history, info based?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>hb: we definitely need a few new tools with which to see the patterns of
history. whether those patterns are informational or not, I'm not
sure. I lean toward the tools you cite, the ones emerging from
biology. superorganism, ideas, and the pecking order, for example, come
from evolutionary biology. so do hormonal interpretations of history, some
of which are in my books.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>the real challenge is in the puzzle you pose: how do we make insights
that come from "inspiration and metaphor" more rigorous. one tiny
suggestion. forget mathematics. it has been consistently misleading
in the realm of the living.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>instead look at the example of darwin. darwin used a metaphor--the
sort of selection a pigeon breeder uses to achieve new characteristics. he
imagined nature as the picky, choosy selector, not the pigeon
breeder. so he called his metaphor "natural selection." </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>yet he used not a single equation. the validity of his metaphor was
judged by the number of facts it explained. and by the extent to which
facts fit into another of his tools, one his grandfather had pioneered, an
evolutionary story, a timeline, that began with a big bang (his grandfather's
starting point) and worked its way up to the present.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>if the timeline fit the facts and the facts fit the timeline, the
timeline was worth employing as a tool. in the 157 years since
Darwin's publication of On the Origin of Species, more and more facts have
fit. And more and more predictions based on the timeline have proven
true.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'd suggest the same approach to concepts like the secular trio of the
forces of history, the unholy trinity of the lucifer principle: superorganism,
ideas, and the pecking order. the pecking order, in fact, can be traced
back to hierarchies within atoms 380,000 years after the big bang and to the
hierarchies within galaxies and solar systems 400 million years after the big
bang. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>emergent group identities, the pre-biotic equivalent of superorganisms, can
be traced back to the first quark trios in the initial 10(-32) of a second of
the cosmos existence, and to the first galaxies, solar systems, stars, and
planets.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>replicators are totally unique to life. and ideas are totally unique
to minds.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>my insistence on finding the basic patterns in the abiotic cosmos that
reappear in the forces of history is my humble attempt to do a darwin--to see
what basic organizing principles emerge from the timeline of the cosmos'
existence, from the big bang to what you and i are doing at this minute in our
exchange.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>information may or may not be a primary tool of this understanding.
but surely communication, which has been around from the instant when
the first quarks precipitated from a speeding, expanding
space-time manifold 10(-32) seconds into the cosmos' existence, is
crucial.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>which puts us back to where we left off in my previous
email: does abiotic communication qualify
as information? and if it is disqualified, are those performing the
disqualification weakening the potential explanatory power of their
chosen discipline?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>with warmth and oomph--howard</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 size=2 face="Century Gothic" FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10">____________<BR>Howard Bloom<BR>Author of: <I>The Lucifer Principle:
A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History</I> ("mesmerizing"-<I>The
Washington Post</I>),<BR><I>Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The
Big Bang to the 21st Century</I> ("reassuring and sobering"-<I>The New
Yorker)</I>,<BR><I>The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of
Capitalism</I> ("A tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National
Correspondent, <I>The Atlantic</I>),<BR><I>The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos
Creates</I> ("Bloom's argument will rock your world." Barbara
Ehrenreich),<BR><I>How I Accidentally Started the Sixties</I> ("Wow! Whew!
Wild!<BR>Wonderful!" Timothy Leary), and<BR><I>The Mohammed Code</I> ("A
terrifying book…the best book I've read on Islam." David Swindle,<I> PJ
Media</I>).<BR>www.howardbloom.net<BR>Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate
Institute; Former Visiting Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York
University.<BR>Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; Founder, Space
Development Steering Committee; Founder: The Group Selection Squad; Founding
Board Member: Epic of Evolution Society; Founding Board Member, The Darwin
Project; Founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of
Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of Science, American
Psychological Society, Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and
Evolution Society, International Society for Human Ethology, Scientific Advisory
Board Member, Lifeboat Foundation; Editorial Board Member, Journal of Space
Philosophy; Board member and member of Board of Governors, National Space
Society.</FONT><FONT lang=0 color=#000000 size=2 face=Verdana FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
PTSIZE="10"><BR>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/13/2016 3:38:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; COLOR: #000000; DIRECTION: ltr">Thanks
for the positive comment, Marcus. Actually there is another book from the 90s
too by Hobart and Schiffman ("Information Ages", John Hopkins, 1998) that also
focuses on a new vision of history, pretty much informational we could say.
The problem with theses exploratory attempts, and here we may include Jared
Diamond on social complexity and the two books supporting Howard's NY lecture
(Lucifer Principle and the Global Brain), is that they should mostly rely on
inspiration and metaphor. The difference with previous mechanical metaphors
for social change (e.g., Marxian) is evident, and nowadays most of the
scientific sources and paradigm loans are taking from the biological, and I
think that's more useful a strategy. But going from an individual's
"exploration" to disciplinary "colonization" is always a problematic
transition--somehow we are trying to do it now in the discussion. Is it
possible a more rigorous or systematic parallel between biological evolution
and social history? Is this the nucleus of an informational approach to
history? Do we need a new interpretation of history, info based? Personally I
respond YES to the three questions.
<DIV>Best regards--Pedro<BR>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman; COLOR: #000000">
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<DIV id=divRpF986544 style="DIRECTION: ltr"><FONT color=#000000 size=2
face=Tahoma><B>De:</B> Fis [fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es] en nombre de Marcus
Abundis [55mrcs@gmail.com]<BR><B>Enviado el:</B> domingo, 10 de enero de 2016
5:49<BR><B>Para:</B> fis@listas.unizar.es<BR><B>Asunto:</B> [Fis] January
Lecture--Information and the Forces of History<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Hi Pedro,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV> Thank you for your well crafted (typical Pedro)
synthesizing statement, it was a pleasure to read. Thanks also for the
reminders of J. Diamonds work. It has been ages since I read it, but it was
certainly a treasure (hmm, now where I put my copy . . . )</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Your note:<BR>> Bob has drafted the universal drama, where the
elements of the two different scenarios AP & LP mix<</DIV>
<DIV>I am not sure I have seen the draft referenced here, or if I missed it in
an earlier post – details?</DIV>
<DIV>In acquainting myself with the IS4IS community I recall seeing some
references to your AP, but in my quick survey I never came across anything of
depth. I assumed such work existed, but I did not stumble upon it. Can you
point me to a particular piece that you feel gives a good representation? Your
posts have rekindled my curiosity.<BR>
<TABLE
style="FONT-SIZE: 14px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: proxima-nova-1,proxima-nova-2,Tahoma,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif; BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; OUTLINE-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-SPACING: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; OUTLINE-COLOR: invert; LINE-HEIGHT: 18px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"
cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY
style="BORDER-TOP: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; OUTLINE-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; OUTLINE-COLOR: invert; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<TR
style="BORDER-TOP: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; OUTLINE-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; OUTLINE-COLOR: invert; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<TD
style="FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; HEIGHT: 30px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; WIDTH: auto; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; OUTLINE-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; OUTLINE-COLOR: invert; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"><BR></TD></TR>
<TR
style="BORDER-TOP: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; OUTLINE-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; OUTLINE-COLOR: invert; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<TD
style="BORDER-TOP: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; WIDTH: auto; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; OUTLINE-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; OUTLINE-COLOR: invert; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"><BR></TD></TR>
<TR
style="BORDER-TOP: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; OUTLINE-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; OUTLINE-COLOR: invert; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<TD
style="FONT-SIZE: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; HEIGHT: 20px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; WIDTH: auto; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; OUTLINE-WIDTH: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; OUTLINE-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; OUTLINE-COLOR: invert; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"><BR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Fis
mailing
list<BR>Fis@listas.unizar.es<BR>http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>