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<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style="color:#1F497D">I am inclined to agree with you, Joseph. Chaitin is a bit on the Platonic side (more so than Bertrand Russell, I would say). I think that we need to get a unification of the physical
and the informational, as I have argued numerous times on this list. I have been working on some rigorous connections using the entropy concept, where information has units of per degree of freedom, but since most people don’t understand entropy it is not
clear to me that I have made real progress. So I haven’t published the results yet until I can simplify the argument even more.
<o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">John Collier<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">Professor Emeritus, UKZN<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">http://web.ncf.ca/collier<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"> Joseph
Brenner [mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> October 27, 2015 5:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Collier; fis<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Short article by Chaitin on information incompleteness<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">Dear John,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">I hope the metamorphosis went smoothly.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">Thanks for posting the Chaitin link. It is indeed a clear statement, or group of statements, and many of them confirm the respect due to to Chaitin
as a mathematician.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">However, my respect does not extend to the following, at the end of the article:</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times-Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">"To me as a pure mathematician, metabiology is justified if it enables us to prove beautiful theorems. More generally, software models and current
work on quantum information and randomness show the importance of an idealistic as opposed to a materialist conception of nature. Information and computation are better than matter and energy. I expect that this is just the beginning and that, if we are fortunate,
we will continue to see idealism supersede materialism, particularly in the much-to-be-desired basic theoretical understanding of consciousness and mind."</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">This kind of dichotomous dogma may sit well with the 'sponsors', but it does not bode well for progress in information science or philosophy. Is
there anyone who feels it does? </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">Best wishes,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">Joseph</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">----- Original Message -----
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:#E4E4E4"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">
<a href="mailto:Collierj@ukzn.ac.za" title="Collierj@ukzn.ac.za">John Collier</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">To:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">
<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" title="fis@listas.unizar.es">fis</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"> Tuesday, October 27, 2015 12:21 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">Subject:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"> [Fis] Short article by Chaitin
on ionformation incompleteness<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">A particularly clear statement of basic results of incompleteness, randomness, creativity, and a proposal for application to metabiology.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://inference-review.com/article/an-algorithmic-god">http://inference-review.com/article/an-algorithmic-god</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">John Collier<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">Professor Emeritus, UKZN<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-CA"><a href="http://web.ncf.ca/collier">http://web.ncf.ca/collier</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";mso-fareast-language:EN-CA">_______________________________________________<br>
Fis mailing list<br>
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<a href="http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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