<div dir="ltr">Pedro wrote"<div><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">>Most attempts </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">to enlarge informational thought and to extend it to life, economies, </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">societies, etc. continue to be but a reformulation of the former ideas </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">with little added value.</span><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">S: Well, I have generalized the Shannon concept of information carrying capacity under 'variety'... {variety {information carrying capacity}}. This allows the concept to operate quite generally in evolutionary and ecological discourses. Information, then, if you like, is what is left after a reduction in variety, or after some system choice. Consider dance: we have all the possible conformations of the human body, out of which a few are selected to provide information about the meaning of a dance.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">STAN</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">STAN</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Dear Steven and FIS colleagues,<br>
<br>
Many thanks for this opening text. What you are proposing about a pretty<br>
structured discussion looks a good idea, although it will have to<br>
confront the usually anarchic discussion style of FIS list! Two aspects<br>
of your initial text have caught my attention (apart from those videos<br>
you recommend that I will watch along the weekend).<br>
<br>
First about the concerns of a generation earlier (Shannon, Turing...)<br>
situating information in the intersection between physical science and<br>
engineering. The towering influence of this line of thought, both with<br>
positive and negative overtones, cannot be overestimated. Most attempts<br>
to enlarge informational thought and to extend it to life, economies,<br>
societies, etc. continue to be but a reformulation of the former ideas<br>
with little added value. See one of the last creatures: "Why Information<br>
Grows: The Evolution of Order, from Atoms to Economies" (2015), by Cesar<br>
Hidalgo (prof. at MIT).<br>
<br>
In my opinion, the extension of those classic ideas to life are very<br>
fertile from the technological point of view, from the "theory of<br>
molecular machines" for DNA-RNA-protein matching to genomic-proteomic<br>
and other omics' "big data". But all that technobrilliance does not<br>
open per se new avenues in order to produce innovative thought about the<br>
information stuff of human societies. Alternatively we may think that<br>
the accelerated digitalization of our world and the cyborg-symbiosis of<br>
human information and computer information do not demand much brain<br>
teasing, as it is a matter that social evolution is superseding by itself.<br>
<br>
The point I have ocasionally raised in this list is whether all the new<br>
molecular knowledge about life might teach us about a fundamental<br>
difference in the "way of being in the world" between life and inert<br>
matter (& mechanism & computation)---or not. In the recent compilation<br>
by Plamen and colleagues from the former INBIOSA initiative, I have<br>
argued about that fundamental difference in the intertwining of<br>
communication/self-production, how signaling is strictly caught in the<br>
advancement of a life cycle (see paper "How the living is in the<br>
world"). Life is based on an inusitate informational formula unknown in<br>
inert matter. And the very organization of life provides an original<br>
starting point to think anew about information --of course, not the only<br>
one.<br>
<br>
So, to conclude this "tangent", I find quite exciting the discussion we<br>
are starting now, say from the classical info positions onwards, in<br>
particularly to be compared in some future with another session (in<br>
preparation) with similar ambition but starting from say the<br>
phenomenology of the living. Struggling for a<br>
convergence/complementarity of outcomes would be a cavalier effort.<br>
<br>
All the best--Pedro<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Steven Ericsson-Zenith wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
...The subject is one that has concerned me ever since I completed my PhD in 1992. I came away from defending my thesis, essentially on large scale parallel computation, with the strong intuition that I had disclosed much more concerning the little that we know, than I had offered either a theoretical or engineering solution. <br>
For the curious, a digital copy of this thesis can be found among the reports of CRI, MINES ParisTech, formerly ENSMP, <a href="http://www.cri.ensmp.fr/classement/doc/A-232.pdf" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.cri.ensmp.fr/classement/doc/A-232.pdf</a>, it is also available as a paper copy on Amazon.<br>
<br>
Like many that have been involved in microprocessor and instruction set/language design, using mathematical methods, we share the physical concerns of a generation earlier, people like John Von Neumann, Alan Turing, and Claude Shannon. In other words, a close intersection between physical science and machine engineering.<br>
<br>
...I will then discuss some historical issues in particular referencing Benjamin Peirce, Albert Einstein and Alan Turing. And finally discuss the contemporary issues, as I see them, in biophysics, biology, and associated disciplines, reaching into human and other social constructions, perhaps touching on cosmology and the extended role of information theory in mathematical physics...<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
-------------------------------------------------<br>
Pedro C. Marijuán<br>
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<br>
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud<br>
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)<br>
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X<br>
50009 Zaragoza, Spain<br>
Tfno. <a href="tel:%2B34%20976%2071%203526" value="+34976713526" target="_blank">+34 976 71 3526</a> (& 6818)<br>
<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a><br>
-------------------------------------------------<br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>