<div dir="ltr">Dear Marcus,<div><br></div><div>Thank you for this simple and absolutely essential intervention. Allowing ourselves the freedom to use the same term—'information' which is the defining term for this entire enterprise—for such different relationships as intrinsic signal properties and extrinsic referential and normative properties is a recipe for irrelevance. </div><div><br></div><div>— Terry</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 26, 2015 at 10:33 AM, Loet Leydesdorff <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Dear Marcus and colleagues, <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Katherine Hayles (1990, pp. 59f.) compared this discussion about the definition of “information” with asking whether a glass is half empty or half full. Shannon-type information is a measure of the variation or uncertainty, whereas Bateson’s “difference which makes a difference” presumes a system of reference for which the information can make a difference and thus be meaningful. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">In my opinion, the advantage of measuring uncertainty in bits cannot be underestimated, since the operationalization and the measurement provide avenues to hypothesis testing and thus control of speculation (Theil, 1972). However, the semantic confusion can also be solved by using the words “uncertainty” or “probabilistic entropy” when Shannon-type information is meant.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">I note that “a difference which makes a difference” cannot so easily be measured. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#44546a">J</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"> I agree that it is more precise to speak of “meaningful information” in that case. The meaning has to be specified in the system of reference (e.g., physics and/or biology).<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Loet<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">References:<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Hayles, N. K. (1990). <i>Chaos Bound; Orderly Disorder in Contemporary Literature and Science </i>Ithaca, etc.: Cornell University.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a">Theil, H. (1972). <i>Statistical Decomposition Analysis</i>. Amsterdam/ London: North-Holland.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><hr size="3" width="100%" align="center"></span></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Loet Leydesdorff <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Emeritus</span></i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> University of Amsterdam<br>Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><a href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" title="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">loet@leydesdorff.net </span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">; </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><a href="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> <br></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Honorary Professor, </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><a href="http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">SPRU, </span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">University of Sussex; <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Guest Professor </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><a href="http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Zhejiang Univ.</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">, Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><a href="http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">ISTIC, </span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Beijing;<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Visiting Professor, </span><a name="14e30efbc6a35609__GoBack"></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><a href="http://www.bbk.ac.uk/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">Birkbeck</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">, University of London; <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><a href="http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.0pt">http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Fis [mailto:<a href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Marcus Abundis<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 26, 2015 7:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a><br><b>Subject:</b> [Fis] It-from-Bit and information interpretation of QM<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Dear Andrei,<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> I would ask for clarification on whether you speak of "information" in your examples as something that has innate "meaning" or something that is innately "meaningless" . . . which has been a core issue in earlier exchanges. If this issue of "meaning" versus "meaningless" in the use of the term "information" is not resolved (for the group?) it seems hard (to me) to have truly meaningful exchanges . . . without having to put a "meaningful" or "meaningless" qualifier in front of "information" every time it is use.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Thanks.<br clear="all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><div><div><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="margin-left:.5in;outline:0px;border-spacing:0px"><tbody><tr style="height:22.5pt;outline:0px;font-style:inherit"><td width="187" valign="bottom" style="width:103.6pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;height:22.5pt;outline:0px;font-style:inherit"><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"inherit","serif";color:#333333"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></td></tr><tr style="outline:0px;font-style:inherit"><td width="187" valign="bottom" style="width:103.6pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;outline:0px;font-style:inherit"><div><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr style="outline:0px;font-style:inherit"><td width="1" valign="top" style="width:.3pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"inherit","serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:baseline"><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#333333">Marcus Abundis<u></u><u></u></span></b></p></div><div style="margin-top:2.25pt;outline:0px;font-style:inherit"><p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><a href="http://about.me/marcus.abundis" target="_blank">about.me/marcus.abundis</a><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></td></tr><tr style="outline:0px;font-style:inherit"><td width="1" valign="top" style="width:.3pt;padding:6.0pt 0in 0in 0in;outline:0px;font-style:inherit"><p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right;background:#c5d0e0;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:"inherit","serif""><img border="0" width="88" height="4" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D0B047.06D01090" alt="http://d13pix9kaak6wt.cloudfront.net/signature/colorbar.png"></span><span style="font-family:"inherit","serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p></td></tr></tbody></table><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:0%;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"inherit","serif";color:#333333"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div></td></tr><tr style="height:15.0pt;outline:0px;font-style:inherit"><td width="187" valign="bottom" style="width:103.6pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;height:15.0pt;outline:0px;font-style:inherit"></td></tr></tbody></table><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature">Professor Terrence W. Deacon<br>University of California, Berkeley</div>
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