<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6002.19383" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY class=""
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear Colleagues and Reasoned
Opponents,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>A scientific position may be the object of rational
disagreement and discussion, but the 'ganging up' of some individuals on a
highly respected colleague is disgraceful and unacceptable. By this note I am
suggesting to Pedro that Ericsson-Zenith, Sherman and Abundis be removed
from the group.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The formulation of Loet's comment was somewhat
rapid, since the key questions are 'what physics, what mathematics (and what
logic)". As Loet knows well, he and I do not agree on all issues
surrounding information. Here I believe he might have been over-reacting to
speakers at the conference who took superannuated postions on the physical
grounding of information.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Among these positions is the idea that there must
be exact, immutable defintions and terminology, as if we were not
all involved in a complex learning process. Who is doing the alleged
'needless blurring of terms'? If after all this Abundis is still wondering
how he can contribute, as he has already said, perhaps he should draw the
obvious conclusion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The inability to engage in civilized debate
corresponds to an enormous LOSS of information in our Information Society. I
would not blame the new media, since they are only tools, but they enable the
very facile expression of some ideas better left for other venues.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sadly,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Joseph</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=steven@iase.us href="mailto:steven@iase.us">Steven
Ericsson-Zenith</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=55mrcs@gmail.com
href="mailto:55mrcs@gmail.com">Marcus Abundis</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=fis@listas.unizar.es
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">Foundations of Information Science
Information Science</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 15, 2015 8:28 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fis] It from Bit redux . .
.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV class="">Trust me. You are in good company.</DIV>
<DIV class=""><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><BR class=""></DIV>
<DIV class="">Steven</DIV>
<DIV class=""><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><BR class=""></DIV>
<DIV class=""><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><BR class=""></DIV>
<DIV class=""><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><BR class=""></DIV><BR class="">
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="" type="cite">
<DIV class="">On Jun 14, 2015, at 5:22 PM, Marcus Abundis <<A class=""
href="mailto:55mrcs@gmail.com">55mrcs@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<DIV class="">
<DIV class="" dir=ltr>From Loet's post:
<DIV class="">><SPAN class="">During the recent conference in Vienna, I
was amazed how many of our colleagues wish to ground information in
physics.<</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=""><SPAN class="">I would say that I was disappointed . . .
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=""><FONT class=""><SPAN class=""><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR
class=""></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=""><FONT class=""><SPAN class="">For me this exchange on It from
Bit is problematic as its seems to simply revisit the same problem
introduced with Shannon's use of the term “information“ in his Mathematical
Theory of Communication – but dressed with a slightly different face. I had
this same problem with “lack of precise thinking“ (or terminology?) in the
It from Bit video from last month. This endless(?) debate around an old
issue of “meaningful information“ versus “meaningless information“ (aka DATA
awaiting MEANINGFUL interpretation) I find unhelpful in addressing
FOUNDATIONAL issues. If we cannot</SPAN> keep our terms straight I am
not sure how progress is made.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=""><FONT class=""><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><BR class=""></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=""><FONT class="">Yes, of course physics has a place in the
conversation, but the needless blurring of basic terms does not, I think,
advance the project. If a basic nomenclature and/or taxonomy cannot be
agreed and then abided in these conversations, it leaves me wondering how I
might contribute. I am new to this group, but this seems like it should have
been dealt with from the start in agreeing the FIS group goals.<BR
class=""></FONT>
<DIV class="">
<DIV class=gmail_signature>
<DIV class="" dir=ltr>
<DIV class="">
<TABLE class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 14px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); LINE-HEIGHT: 18px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: proxima-nova-1,proxima-nova-2,Tahoma,Helvetica,Verdana,sans-serif; outline: 0px; border-spacing: 0px"
cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; outline: 0px">
<TR class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; outline: 0px">
<TD class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; WIDTH: auto; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; HEIGHT: 30px; outline: 0px"> </TD></TR>
<TR class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; outline: 0px">
<TD class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; WIDTH: auto; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; outline: 0px">
<DIV class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; LINE-HEIGHT: 0; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; outline: 0px"><A
class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; DISPLAY: inline-block; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; COLOR: rgb(43,130,173); PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; TEXT-DECORATION: none; outline: 0px"
href="http://about.me/marcus.abundis?promo=email_sig" target=_blank>
<TABLE class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; outline: 0px; border-spacing: 0px"
cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; outline: 0px">
<TR class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; outline: 0px">
<TD class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; WIDTH: auto; LINE-HEIGHT: 1; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; outline: 0px"
vAlign=top align=left><IMG class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; DISPLAY: block; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; OVERFLOW: hidden; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; WIDTH: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; HEIGHT: 0px; outline: 0px"
height=0 alt=-- width=0>
<DIV class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 18px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; COLOR: rgb(51,51,51); LINE-HEIGHT: 1; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: proxima-nova-1,Proxima-Nova,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; outline: 0px">Marcus
Abundis</DIV>
<DIV class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 12px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 3px 0px 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: proxima-nova-1,Proxima-Nova,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; outline: 0px"><IMG
class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; DISPLAY: block; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; OVERFLOW: hidden; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; WIDTH: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; HEIGHT: 0px; outline: 0px"
height=0 alt=http:// width=0>about.me/marcus.abundis</DIV></TD></TR>
<TR class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; outline: 0px">
<TD class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; WIDTH: auto; LINE-HEIGHT: 1; PADDING-TOP: 8px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; outline: 0px"
vAlign=top align=left>
<DIV class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; HEIGHT: 4px; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(197,208,224); TEXT-ALIGN: right; outline: 0px"><IMG
class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; DISPLAY: block; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; FLOAT: right; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; outline: 0px"
height=4 alt=""
src="http://d13pix9kaak6wt.cloudfront.net/signature/colorbar.png"
width=88></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></A> </DIV></TD></TR>
<TR class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; outline: 0px">
<TD class=""
style="BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; BORDER-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; VERTICAL-ALIGN: baseline; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; WIDTH: auto; PADDING-TOP: 0px; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: inherit; HEIGHT: 20px; outline: 0px"><BR
class=""></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR
class="">Fis mailing list<BR class=""><A class=""
href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</A><BR
class="">http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis<BR
class=""></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR class="">
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>Fis mailing
list<BR>Fis@listas.unizar.es<BR>http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>