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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">Dear Bob,<?xml:namespace
prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
/><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">This is not wasted time
or space. At their beginning, there was something moving, call it ‘It’, that led
to trees and us. Today, there is something in us, call it ‘It’, that leads
to love. This It became and now becomes us. Am I to blame that I to try to
understand It, from the beginning, as information?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">Please do send me an
E-mail copy of the latest version of your book. The one I have is dated December
9, 2011.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">Best,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">Joseph<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=logan@physics.utoronto.ca href="mailto:logan@physics.utoronto.ca">Bob
Logan</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ</A>
; <A title=fis@listas.unizar.es href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis</A> ;
<A title=joe.brenner@bluewin.ch href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">Joseph
Brenner</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 20, 2014 8:53
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fis] Physical Informatics…
(J.Brenner)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Dear all - my take on this post is that the question of whether
physical processes are information is like the question: Is there a sound if a
tree falls in the forest and no one is there to listen? This is like the Zen
koan: "what is the sound of one hand clapping" If no one is in the forest are
the trees information? Well for sure they are trees but as to whether or not
they are information that is strictly dependent on the point of view of the
respondent. For me they are just trees and here is why I think so. For me
information is about a process. The noun information relates to the verb
inform. If no one is being informed there is no information. In the same way
that if no one or thing is there being loved (verb) their is no love (noun).
If no one is engaged in the activity of loving (a verb) there is no love (a
noun). If there is no one being informed (a verb) then there is no information
(a noun). Now one can talk about an object or a phenomenon having the
possibility of informing someone which to my mind is potential information
which is what I would call the physical processes that take place in our
universe. A book written in Urdu is potential information because an Urdu
reader can be informed by it. For me as a non-Urdu speaker there is very
little information other than someone went to the trouble of writing out a
text with Urdu letters and hence there is probably information there for an
Urdu speaker reasoning why would any one make the effort to create such an
object unless that person wanted to inform Urdu speakers. Just as one person's
food is another person's poison so it is that one person's information is just
for another persons merely a physical phenomenon such as processes in nature,
ink on paper, sounds or EM signals. Shannon developed a theory of signals in
which some of those signals have the ability to inform some recipients. I hope
this collection of words has informed you other than giving you the knowledge
of my view as to what constitutes information. Thanks to Joseph, Pedro, and
Igor for the opportunity to reflect on the nature of information. If you
enjoyed my post and would like to learn more about my views on information
please send me an email off line and I will send you an email version of my
book <B>What is Information? <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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<![endif]--> <!--StartFragment--><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US">Propagating
Organization in the Biosphere, the Symbolosphere, the Technosphere and the
Econosphere</SPAN><!--EndFragment--> </B> for free. And now you know
what an infomercial is. This was an infomercial because of my offer to share
my book with you erudite scholars of FIS whose posts I always enjoy. With kind
regards - Bob<BR>
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<DIV
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<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">______________________</SPAN>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN>
<DIV
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">Robert
K. Logan</DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">Prof.
Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto </SPAN>
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href="http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan">http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan</A></SPAN>
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class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><A
href="http://www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan">www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan</A></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><A
href="http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications">www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications</A></SPAN><BR>
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<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></DIV></SPAN><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></DIV></DIV></SPAN><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></DIV></SPAN><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></DIV></DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 2014-10-20, at 1:57 PM, PEDRO CLEMENTE MARIJUAN FERNANDEZ
wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); DIRECTION: ltr; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'">
<DIV id=divRpF866703 style="DIRECTION: ltr"><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228); background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target=_blank>Joseph Brenner</A></DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:iggurevich@gmail.com" target=_blank>Igor Gurevich</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>;<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target=_blank>Pedro C.
Marijuan</A><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>;<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=fis@listas.unizar.es
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target=_blank>fis</A></DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Monday,
October 20, 2014 8:40 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [Fis]
Physical Informatics contains fundamental results which impossible to get
only by physical methods</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear Igor, Dear Gerhard and
Colleagues,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In Igor's summary of his recent work, I read
the following absoutely critical statement:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"<FONT face=Times-Roman><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>It is shown that the expansion of
the Universe is the source of information formation, wherein a variety of
physical processes in an expanding Universe provide information formation."
I take this as meaning that the expansion of the Universe as such does not
produce information. </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Gerhard's formulation is slightly different (my
paraphrase):</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"The first assymetry in energy distribution,
following the singularity, is the source of information
formation".</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My question is, therefore, how best to combine
these insights. For example, we may say that the variety of physical
processes are all the consequence of, and subsequently reflect, a first
assymetry.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is also interesting to note
that the approaches of both Igor and Gerhard imply the emergence
of information through the interactional impact (informational interactions)
of fundamental forces on particles, extended by Gerhard to somewhat higher
levels of organization (life) than Igor. </FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I look forward to further discussion of these
fundamental issues.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Joseph</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228); background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=iggurevich@gmail.com
href="mailto:iggurevich@gmail.com" target=_blank>Igor Gurevich</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"
target=_blank>Pedro C. Marijuan</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>;<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=fis@listas.unizar.es
href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target=_blank>fis</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Wednesday, October 01, 2014 9:47
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[Fis] Physical Informatics
contains fundamental results which impossible to get only by physical
methods</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Dear Pedro C. Marijuan,<BR>Dear colleagues,<FONT
size=+0><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><BR>I send you</SPAN><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>"The main results of Gurevich
I.M. (</SPAN><SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">Physical Informatics
contains fundamental results</SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT size=+0><SPAN><SPAN
lang=EN-US style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>which impossible to get only by
physical methods</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"></SPAN></FONT>)"<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"><FONT
size=+0><SPAN lang=EN-US style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">and
"Igor Gurevich: Main publications in English" .<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR clear=all>With best
wishes.</SPAN></FONT></P><FONT size=+0></FONT>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><FONT size=+0>Igor
Gurevic</FONT>h</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US></SPAN></P><SPAN lang=EN-US
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