<div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">John wrote:</span></p><p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"><br>
</span></p><p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">Catching up after a myriad of distracting problems.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222;min-height:15.0px"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"></span><br></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">At 03:51 PM 2014-08-25, Stanley N Salthe wrote:</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">Bob wrote: </span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222;min-height:15.0px"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"></span><br></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">Recall that some thermodynamic variables, especially work functions like</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">Helmholz & Gibbs free energies and exergy all are tightly related to</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">information measures. In statistical mechanical analogs, for example, the</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">exergy becomes RT times the mutual information among the molecules</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222;min-height:15.0px"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"></span><br></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">S: So, the more organized, the more potential available energy.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222;min-height:15.0px"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"></span><br></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">JC: I think not, Stan. Organization requires a middling degree of complexity. Exergy is maximized when the mutual information is 1, like in a crystal. Crystals are not highly organized. See Collier and Hooker <a href="http://web.ncf.ca/collier/papers/Cods.pdf"><span style>Complexly Organised Dynamical Systems</span></a> (1999) for discussion.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222;min-height:15.0px"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"></span><br></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">SS: An excellent paper, that I have used in my thinking. I was assuming complex, not simple systems.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222;min-height:15.0px"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"></span><br></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">RU: I happen to be a radical who feels that the term "energy" is a construct</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">with little ontological depth.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222;min-height:15.0px"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"></span><br></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">S: I believe it has instead ontological breadth!</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222;min-height:15.0px"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"></span><br></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">RU: It is a bookkeeping device (a nice one, of course, but bookkeeping nonetheless). It was devised to maintain the Platonic worldview. Messrs. Meyer & Joule simply gave us the conversion factors to make it look like energy is constant.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222;min-height:15.0px"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"></span><br></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">S: It IS constant in the adiabatic boxes used to measure it.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222;min-height:15.0px"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"></span><br></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"> RU: *Real* energy is always in decline -- witness what happens to the work functions I just mentioned.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222;min-height:15.0px"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"></span><br></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">S: In decline in the actual material world that we inhabit. That is, the local world -- the world of input and dissipation. I think the information problem may be advanced if we try to explain why the energy efficiency of any work is so poor, and gets worse the harder we work. This is the key local phenomenon that needs to be understood.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222;min-height:15.0px"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"></span><br></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">JC: Information can be used to improve efficiency.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222;min-height:15.0px"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"></span><br></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">SS: That is not same question. Which is: Why is any work constitutively poor in energy efficiency? I wrote a little essay (</span><span style> Entropy: what does it really mean? <i>General Systems Bulletin</i> 32:5-12.</span><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">) suggesting that it results from a lack of fittingness between energy gradient and the system attempting to utilize it -- that is, that it is an information problem.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"><br></span></p><p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">STAN</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222;min-height:15.0px"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px"></span><br></p>
<p style="margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px;font:13.0px Arial;color:#222222"><span style="letter-spacing:0.0px">John</span></p></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:16 AM, John Collier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:collierj@ukzn.ac.za" target="_blank">collierj@ukzn.ac.za</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
Catching up after a myriad of distracting problems.<br><br>
At 03:51 PM 2014-08-25, Stanley N Salthe wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Bob wrote: <br><br>
Recall that some thermodynamic variables, especially work functions
like<br>
Helmholz & Gibbs free energies and exergy all are tightly related
to<br>
information measures. In statistical mechanical analogs, for example,
the<br>
exergy becomes RT times the mutual information among the
molecules<br><br>
S: So, the more organized, the more potential available energy.<br>
</blockquote><br>
I think not, Stan. Organization requires a middling degree of complexity.
Exergy is maximized when the mutual information is 1, like in a crystal.
Crystals are not highly organized. See Collier and Hooker
<a href="http://web.ncf.ca/collier/papers/Cods.pdf" target="_blank">Complexly Organised
Dynamical Systems</a> (1999) for discussion.<br><br>
<blockquote type="cite">I happen to be a radical who
feels that the term "energy" is a construct<br>
with little ontological depth.<br><br>
S: I believe it has instead ontological breadth!<br><br>
It is a bookkeeping device (a nice one, of course, but bookkeeping
nonetheless). <br>
It was devised to maintain the Platonic worldview. Messrs. Meyer &
Joule simply <br>
gave us the conversion factors to make it look like energy is
constant.<br><br>
S: It IS constant in the adiabatic boxes used to measure it.<br><br>
*Real* energy is always in decline -- witness what happens to the
work functions I <br>
just mentioned.<br><br>
S: In decline in the actual material world that we inhabit. That
is, the local world -- the world of input and dissipation. I think
the information problem may be advanced if we try to explain why the
energy efficiency of any work is so poor, and gets worse the harder we
work. This is the key local phenomenon that needs to be understood.<br>
</blockquote><br>
Information can be used to improve efficiency.<br><br>
John<br><br>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<hr>
Professor John
Collier
<a href="mailto:collierj@ukzn.ac.za" target="_blank">collierj@ukzn.ac.za</a><br>
Philosophy and Ethics, University of KwaZulu-Natal, Durban 4041 South
Africa<br>
T: <a href="tel:%2B27%20%2831%29%20260%203248" value="+27312603248" target="_blank">+27 (31) 260 3248</a> / 260 2292 F:
<a href="tel:%2B27%20%2831%29%20260%203031" value="+27312603031" target="_blank">+27 (31) 260 3031</a><br>
<a href="http://web.ncf.ca/collier" target="_blank">
Http://web.ncf.ca/collier<br>
</a></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>