<div dir="ltr">Caro Joseph,<div>desidero precisare che la parola composta che io uso è tras-in-form-azione, non trans-informazione. Questo per evitare almeno un equivoco.</div><div>Buona domenica.</div><div>Francesco.</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-06-07 12:05 GMT+02:00 Francesco Rizzo <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com" target="_blank">13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Caro Joseph,<div>vedo che il mio ultimo messaggio è stato un poco raffazzonato. In ogni caso non penso che sia possibile soddisfare la Tua legittima curiosità mediante brevi scritti. Ed è per questo che inizialmente mi sono permesso di suggerire la lettura di tre libri. Naturalmente, mi farò risentire anche per motivare, se serve, il perché "entropia" significa dis-informazione e "neg-entropia" informazione. Interessante è a questo proposito la lettura di "Che cos'è la vita?" di Erwin Schrodinger (con due puntini sopra la o).</div>
<div>Grazie soprattutto per la Tua verve critica che apprezzo molto.</div><div>Saluti.</div><div>Francesco.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-06-07 8:53 GMT+02:00 Joseph Brenner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>></span>:<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial">Dear Francesco and All,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Here is a rough version of Francesco's comment. I
think it deserves further critical comments, for example, on the way it relates
information and cultural value and the co-generation of entropy and negentropy,
usually implicit but not spelled out.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><span lang="EN" style="FONT-SIZE:10pt;COLOR:#222222;FONT-FAMILY:Arial">Thanks
for your words. In the early eighties I introduced the concept of
information-process (the action of giving or taking form in time). In "The
Economics of Cultural Heritage" (1983), which became "Economics of an
“architectural-environmental heritage," in 1989 (Franco Angeli, <u></u><u></u><u></u>Milan<u></u><u></u> ), in which, inter
alia, I define a negentropic cultural value. I also applied to the city, during
a course on urban and regional economics at the Faculty of Architecture of
Palermo, in 1984-85, the compound word trans-form-in-action (action of giving or
taking form over time that can /not/ not trans-form) to the city, But what
matters most is to have conceived the activity of economic production (in
general) as a process of trans-information whose "input" (matter, energy and
information) and "output" (matter, energy and information) are both negentropy
and entropy. So my theory of value (which applies not only to the economy in the
strict sense) can be defined in simple-combination of creative energy and
information and, in a more complex triangle of the three surpluses of
negentropy: thermodynamic or natural, eco-biological and cultural-historical.
So, the marginal utility theory of value of neoclassical economists is outdated
and (should be) thrown to the winds. In fact, the "new economy" is a
psycho-physical, semiotic-hermeneutic and biological technology sub-episteme. In
summary, I really think a new science of economics or economics of science has
been invented. For Pedro’s re-discussion of information encouraged me to send
the above message (without wishing to take any undue credit for
myself).</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:8pt;COLOR:#777777;FONT-FAMILY:Arial"><u></u><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="TEXT-JUSTIFY:inter-ideograph;MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;TEXT-ALIGN:justify"><u></u> </p>
<div><font face="Arial">Best,</font></div><span><font color="#888888">
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Joseph</font></div><u></u></font></span></div>
<blockquote dir="ltr" style="PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px"><div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4;FONT:10pt arial"><b>From:</b>
<a title="13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com" href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com" target="_blank">Francesco Rizzo</a> </div>
</div><div><div><div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">Joseph Brenner</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">Pedro C. Marijuan</a> ; <a title="fis@listas.unizar.es" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, June 06, 2014 12:37
PM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Information Science
and the City. Trans-in-form-action</div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font><font face="Arial"></font><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">Caro Joseph,
<div>grazie per le Tue parole. All'inizio degli anni Ottanta ho introdotto il
concetto-processo di informazione (azione del dare o prendere forma nel tempo)
In "Economia dei beni culturali"(1983), divenuto "Economia del patrimonio
architettonico-ambientale" nel 1989 (FrancoAngeli, Milano), in cui fra l'altro
definisco i beni culturali neg-entropici. Inoltre ho impiegato la parola
composta tras-in-form-azione (azione del dare o prendere forma nel tempo che
non può non tras-formarsi) alla città durante lo svolgimento del corso di
economia urbana e regionale nella Facoltà di Architettura di Palermo,
nell'A.a. 1984-85. Ma quel che conta di più è l'avere concepito l'attività di
produzione economica (in senso generale) come un processo di tras-informazione
i cui "input" (materia, energia e informazione) e "output" (materia, energia e
informazione) sono neg-entropia ed entropia. Quindi la mia teoria del valore
(che non vale solo per l'economia in senso stretto) può definirsi- in modo
semplice- combinazione creativa di energia e informazione e, in modo più
complesso, triangolo dei tre surplus o neg-entropie: termodinamici o naturali,
eco-biologici e storico-culturali. Sicché la teoria del valore-utilità
marginale degli economisti neoclassici è sorpassata e da buttare alle ortiche.
Difatti la "Nuova economia" è in-centrata sull'episteme
psico-fisica,semiotico-ermeneutica e biologico-tecnologica. Insomma, penso
davvero di avere inventato una nuova scienza dell'economia o
economia della scienza. Per questo appena Pedro ha ri-parlato di
informazione sono stato stimolato a mandare il messaggio
precedente.</div>
<div>Ribadisco, però, che non intendo menare alcun vanto.</div>
<div>Cordiali saluti.</div>
<div>Francesco Rizzo.</div>
<div><br></div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2014-06-06 9:49 GMT+02:00 Joseph Brenner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial">Dear Francesco,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Thank you for a most interesting overview of your
work. What I would be most interested in would be a summary of
the real processes underlying "trans-in-form-action" and
its relation to information - and "trans-information". The use of the
prefix 'trans-' in transdisciplinarity is intended (by Nicolescu) to refer
to something that lies within, between and beyond specific disciplines.
Another non-trivial use of 'trans-' was made by Pedro.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">(Some 14 years ago, I defined 'trans-creation' as the
creation of artistic documents or objects with some social relevance, that
is, to the common good. It is important to understand, in this connection,
how information carries such relevance.) </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">If you prefer to answer in Italian rather than
English, unless there is someone else in the group with Italian-language
skills, I would undertake to make a rough translation (or edit a
machine-translation).</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Best regards,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Joseph</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">(Joseph E. Brenner, Ph.D.)</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">VP-Inter-and Transdisciplinarity, International
Society for Information Science)</font></div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4;FONT:10pt arial"><b>From:</b> <a title="13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com" href="mailto:13francesco.rizzo@gmail.com" target="_blank">Francesco
Rizzo</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">Pedro C. Marijuan</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="fis@listas.unizar.es" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" target="_blank">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:31
PM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Information
Science and the City</div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font><font face="Arial"></font><font face="Arial"></font><font face="Arial"></font><br></div>
<div dir="ltr">Caro Pedro e cari tutti,
<div>mi permetto di segnalarVi che la mia "Nuova economia" è basata sul
processo di tras-in-form-azione. Si cfr. a tal proposito, fra i
tanti altri:</div>
<div>-Rizzo F., ""Valore e valutazioni. La scienza dell'economia o
l'economia della scienza", FancoAngeli, Milano 1999;</div>
<div>-Rizzo F., "Nuova economia. Felicità del lavoro creativo e della
conservazione della natura. Infelicità della speculazione finanziaria",
Aracne editrice, Roma, 2013;</div>
<div>-Rizzo F., "Incontro d'amore tra il cuore della fede e l'intelligenza
della scienza. Un salto nel cielo", Aracne editrice, Roma 2014.</div>
<div>Ho dedicato mezzo secolo di ricerca per ri-comprendere e
ri-significare la scienza economica. Quello che scrivo non è una
presunzione.</div>
<div>Auguri per un'intensa ripresa e grazie.</div>
<div>Francesco Rizzo.</div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font><br></div></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2014-06-05 14:25 GMT+02:00 Pedro C. Marijuan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid">Dear
FISers,<br><br>Among the many interesting themes where the information
science perspective may provide useful orientations, cities are one of
the most singular. A recent work by Michel Batty on the New Science of
Cities (2013, MIT) makes a lot of connections with our oft discussed
info topics. A Communication Theory of Urban Growth was developed by
Richard Meier (1962); a fluxes perspective was already attempted by
Patrick Geddes (1949). In essence I have found that the idea of
information flows and material flows as catching and intertwining each
other, with their highly different regimes, heterogeneity and energy
contents, appears as an important focus in order to better understand
the globalized city. Scaling is one of the essential
concepts...<br><br>I am not aware that scaling has been applied to the
informational analysis itself (obviously it is the cornerstone of
self-similarity). What I mean is that a micro-level of communication
analysis may be quite different from the meso-level, and the from
macro-level. Thinking in the human case (biologically it could make
sense too) the micro level is dominated by syntaxis, by a Shannonian
type of analysis on messages emitted from a sourced to a receiver. The
meso level contains meaning, value (fitness), purpose, and in general it
implies the communication associated to the behavioral episodes and
living rhythms of individuals. While in the macro level, many
individuals' actions, works, products, etc. are aggregated into fluxes
or flows, basically of two kinds those devoted to the material
(self-production) and those carrying the info stuff devoted to
communication; then it invites analysis of network science, operations
research, economic efficiency, etc., and of course the direct flow
perspective as Bejan and Peder (2011) have attempted in one of the most
interesting theories on self-constructing flow systems. Depending on the
information perspective in which we observe human communication, we will
need one or another lens to better make sense of what is
happening.<br><br>My impression is that a more mature info science could
be quite helpful in this new field of urban development science --most
people nowadays are living in cities. Top down planning will fail if it
is does not match with the bottom up processes, both in communication
and self-production aspects. Keeping an adequate social flow of
information, a well-mixed regime of communication, is the essence of
democracy. The contemporary "epidemics of loneliness" for instance may
be due among other social and demographic causes to failures in
bureaucratic high level planning...<br><br>best ---Pedro<br><br>PS.
After the nasty computer crash months ago, we should try to enliven the
list--shouldn't we?<br><br>--
<br>------------------------------<u></u>-------------------<br>Pedro C.
Marijuán<br>Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group<br>Instituto
Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud<br>Centro de Investigación Biomédica de
Aragón (CIBA)<br>Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X<br>50009 Zaragoza,
Spain<br>Tfno. <a href="tel:%2B34%20976%2071%203526" value="+34976713526" target="_blank">+34 976 71 3526</a> (& 6818)<br><a href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es" target="_blank">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a><br>
<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/<u></u>pedrocmarijuan/</a><br>------------------------------<u></u>-------------------<br><br>______________________________<u></u>_________________<br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div>