From 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 10:00:40 2026 From: 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com (Francesco Rizzo) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2026 10:00:40 +0200 Subject: [Fis] IAIS Dialogue, Wednesday, March 25th: ON CELLULAR INTELLIGENCE In-Reply-To: <3039380a-a3e7-4638-8413-ce398eea91ab@gmail.com> References: <3039380a-a3e7-4638-8413-ce398eea91ab@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dearest Pedro and dear all, I take the liberty of expressing to you my Easter greetings centered on the breaking and sharing of the Eucharistic bread and on the washing of the feet, that is, serving men: the two pillars of Christianity, but also of every civilization of love or love of civilization under the banner of (my) *economic Theo-human-ology* (Aracne, Rome, 2024). A hug, Francis Il giorno lun 23 mar 2026 alle ore 15:53 Pedro C. Mariju?n < pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com> ha scritto: > Dear FIS Colleagues, > > You are invited to this exciting Dialogue at the International Academy of > Information Studies: > *Theme: *ON CELLULAR INTELLIGENCE & CELL THEORY *Speakers:* *Brian J. > Ford* > *Biologist and Microscopist, Interdisciplinary Researcher* > *University of Cambridge, Honorary Fellow of Cardiff University* > > *Franti?ek Balu?ka* > *Plant Scientist, Integrative Biology Research* > *Institute for Cellular and Molecular Botany, University of Bonn* > > The session will take place on *Wednesday, March 25th**,* *at**:* *17:30 > (CET) | 11:30 AM (EST) | 00:30 AM (Thurs.Beijing)* > In the *MEET link: * > *https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://meet.google.com/gqm-frcd-apg?pli=1__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!WaNwcSf7Qin9woNal5_0fktin_8H0P6zE1oG3cY3ANAkRI2hFXEr5sQWLCTYYTEQKZFCW-LgMikO7i5iRRky_VXniCLZ$ > > * > The Dialogue format: each of the speakers will have 20 min. presentation, > followed by 15 min. mutual debate, and 30 min. Q&A from the audience. > It will be moderated by IAIS Board member *Plamen Simeonov*. > > *The session will be recorded *and posted on the YouTube channel of the > IAIS Dialogues: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/@IAISDIALOGUES__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!WaNwcSf7Qin9woNal5_0fktin_8H0P6zE1oG3cY3ANAkRI2hFXEr5sQWLCTYYTEQKZFCW-LgMikO7i5iRRky_cxf-5en$ > > > *? International Academy of Information Studies: > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.google.com/view/iais-info/home__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!WaNwcSf7Qin9woNal5_0fktin_8H0P6zE1oG3cY3ANAkRI2hFXEr5sQWLCTYYTEQKZFCW-LgMikO7i5iRRky_SxOvC1z$ > * > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis at listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > ---------- > INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL > > Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por > la Universidad de Zaragoza. > Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el > siguiente enlace: > https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas > Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de > baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. > http://listas.unizar.es > ---------- > ------------ pr?xima parte ------------ Se ha borrado un adjunto en formato HTML... URL: From plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 10:31:58 2026 From: plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com (Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2026 11:31:58 +0300 Subject: [Fis] IAIS Dialogue, Wednesday, March 25th: ON CELLULAR INTELLIGENCE In-Reply-To: References: <3039380a-a3e7-4638-8413-ce398eea91ab@gmail.com> Message-ID: Great! Allowing the slap on the other cheek was still OK for me, but the self-humiliating ritual with the washing of the feet of others is something I never understood and will never want to understand. I wonder if the US Pope will make a reform with this tradition. Never assume that the being in front of you can ever be/come like you. That's most probably why Christianity is in such a crisis in Europe and all over the world today! Happy Easter! Plamen On Fri, Apr 3, 2026 at 11:01?AM Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com> wrote: > Dearest Pedro and dear all, > > I take the liberty of expressing to you my Easter greetings centered > on the breaking and sharing of the Eucharistic bread and on the washing > of the feet, that is, serving men: the two pillars of Christianity, but also > of every civilization of love or love of civilization under the banner > of (my) *economic Theo-human-ology* (Aracne, Rome, 2024). > > A hug, Francis > > > Il giorno lun 23 mar 2026 alle ore 15:53 Pedro C. Mariju?n < > pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com> ha scritto: > >> Dear FIS Colleagues, >> >> You are invited to this exciting Dialogue at the International Academy of >> Information Studies: >> *Theme: *ON CELLULAR INTELLIGENCE & CELL THEORY *Speakers:* *Brian J. >> Ford* >> *Biologist and Microscopist, Interdisciplinary Researcher* >> *University of Cambridge, Honorary Fellow of Cardiff University* >> >> *Franti?ek Balu?ka* >> *Plant Scientist, Integrative Biology Research* >> *Institute for Cellular and Molecular Botany, University of Bonn* >> >> The session will take place on *Wednesday, March 25th**,* *at**:* *17:30 >> (CET) | 11:30 AM (EST) | 00:30 AM (Thurs.Beijing)* >> In the *MEET link: * >> *https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://meet.google.com/gqm-frcd-apg?pli=1__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UjlG4Sd90PeAX9PkbzpV7ZVISn9VAi_GPSLxlMmAgn7EpDF-yAINNRjILtoKlnq5LxKUhVVPb7zk-PJFvg0FrNjXD__e$ >> >> * >> The Dialogue format: each of the speakers will have 20 min. presentation, >> followed by 15 min. mutual debate, and 30 min. Q&A from the audience. >> It will be moderated by IAIS Board member *Plamen Simeonov*. >> >> *The session will be recorded *and posted on the YouTube channel of the >> IAIS Dialogues: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/@IAISDIALOGUES__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UjlG4Sd90PeAX9PkbzpV7ZVISn9VAi_GPSLxlMmAgn7EpDF-yAINNRjILtoKlnq5LxKUhVVPb7zk-PJFvg0FrCDJZ49x$ >> >> >> *? International Academy of Information Studies: >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.google.com/view/iais-info/home__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UjlG4Sd90PeAX9PkbzpV7ZVISn9VAi_GPSLxlMmAgn7EpDF-yAINNRjILtoKlnq5LxKUhVVPb7zk-PJFvg0FrO5dlGoj$ >> * >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> _______________________________________________ >> Fis mailing list >> Fis at listas.unizar.es >> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis >> ---------- >> INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL >> >> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada >> por la Universidad de Zaragoza. >> Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el >> siguiente enlace: >> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas >> Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de >> baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. >> http://listas.unizar.es >> ---------- >> > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis at listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > ---------- > INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL > > Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por > la Universidad de Zaragoza. > Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el > siguiente enlace: > https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas > Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de > baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. > http://listas.unizar.es > ---------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 13:23:38 2026 From: plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com (Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2026 14:23:38 +0300 Subject: [Fis] IAIS Dialogue, Wednesday, March 25th: ON CELLULAR INTELLIGENCE In-Reply-To: References: <3039380a-a3e7-4638-8413-ce398eea91ab@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Francesco, I am fully with you w.r.t. loving the next one, be it a human, animal or plant being. The original Christian ideals are very appealing, no question. But we should give up the illusion that everyone can become a true Christian even on Judgement Day! 95% of the Earth's population is kidding and laughing at the true Jesus' followers. Not that we should stop doing it, but I suspect that the medial overexposure of this self-humiliation ritual -- that by the way, was wonderful and useful for the emerging feudal kingdoms to fix their power "from Heaven" after the fall of the Roman Empire; I link it to the neo-feudalism of the transgender technocracy elite today -- hides an evil intention. I know about the meaning and intentions behind the "washing others' feet" ritual, but I do not share it. It is simply too much self-disrespect. This is understood by other religions differently. The bread and the slap are something else. Also giving one#s second shirt to the next one. But Jesus never said we should disrespect ourselves for sure, or to love others more than ourselves. He said: "Love others as yourself!" This is the sign: "=". Not ">=", and not "<=". But we have loved and helped Ukrainians, and Sirians, Afghanis, Somalis, and whoever else in this wide world more than ourselves in this turmoil age, with an imposed and promoted *guilt forever* without any reason. I am sorry. Basta! That's my reflection. We should go back to the real, - call them "radical" if you wish; that stems from "root", right? - principles of Christianity and what they mean to us and the entire human race, not only the Christian world, but they become almost meaningless. These principles (same root as "principe" and "principessa", right? - I love that Machiavelli guy ;-), same stem as SunTsu) are not free for interpretation like in modern "science". I like Medieval Europe more than the modern one, despite all the fights and wars then. Let it be Rinascimento, Renaissance again and MEGA ! Sounds better than MAGA, and means more, right? But who's going to lead the desperados? The US Pope? It's time to step on our own feet, but not in the way that the elite in Brussels tells us. I beg your pardon. Best, PlAMEN On Fri, Apr 3, 2026 at 1:17?PM Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Plamen, > > apart from the considerations that I will spare you, > > I ask you to reflect on the, even metaphorical, pillars > > of the civilization of love or love of civilization: > > * breaking-sharing bread; > > * washing-serving men. > > You see, I am not even talking about free faith in Christianity, > > because the two aforementioned pillars are valid in any case. > > Excuse me, > > Francesco > > > Caro Plamen, > a parte le considerazioni che Ti risparmio, Ti prego di, > riflettere sui , anche metaforici, pilastri della civilt? dell'amore > o amore della civilt?: > * spezzare-condividere il pane; > * lavare-servire gli uomini, > Vedi non parlo nemmeno della libera fede nel Cristianesimo, perch? i due > suddetti pilastri valgono in ogni caso. > Scusami, > Francesco > > Il giorno ven 3 apr 2026 alle ore 10:32 Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov < > plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> ha scritto: > >> Great! Allowing the slap on the other cheek was still OK for me, but the >> self-humiliating ritual with the washing of the feet of others is something >> I never understood and will never want to understand. I wonder if the US >> Pope will make a reform with this tradition. Never assume that the being in >> front of you can ever be/come like you. That's most probably why >> Christianity is in such a crisis in Europe and all over the world today! >> >> Happy Easter! >> >> Plamen >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 3, 2026 at 11:01?AM Francesco Rizzo < >> 13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Dearest Pedro and dear all, >>> >>> I take the liberty of expressing to you my Easter greetings centered >>> on the breaking and sharing of the Eucharistic bread and on the washing >>> of the feet, that is, serving men: the two pillars of Christianity, but also >>> of every civilization of love or love of civilization under the banner >>> of (my) *economic Theo-human-ology* (Aracne, Rome, 2024). >>> >>> A hug, Francis >>> >>> >>> Il giorno lun 23 mar 2026 alle ore 15:53 Pedro C. Mariju?n < >>> pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com> ha scritto: >>> >>>> Dear FIS Colleagues, >>>> >>>> You are invited to this exciting Dialogue at the International Academy >>>> of Information Studies: >>>> *Theme: *ON CELLULAR INTELLIGENCE & CELL THEORY *Speakers:* *Brian J. >>>> Ford* >>>> *Biologist and Microscopist, Interdisciplinary Researcher* >>>> *University of Cambridge, Honorary Fellow of Cardiff University* >>>> >>>> *Franti?ek Balu?ka* >>>> *Plant Scientist, Integrative Biology Research* >>>> *Institute for Cellular and Molecular Botany, University of Bonn* >>>> >>>> The session will take place on *Wednesday, March 25th**,* *at**:* *17:30 >>>> (CET) | 11:30 AM (EST) | 00:30 AM (Thurs.Beijing)* >>>> In the *MEET link: * >>>> *https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://meet.google.com/gqm-frcd-apg?pli=1__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!V7v_akCs3MbPscqUw8dWia5bRGTVua5QTR5q8JJTjmem-bJUui-5O_SPL-ic6bf5iUq5mgXqWqKRwit_p-AUn0kVXBt3$ >>>> >>>> * >>>> The Dialogue format: each of the speakers will have 20 min. >>>> presentation, followed by 15 min. mutual debate, and 30 min. Q&A from the >>>> audience. >>>> It will be moderated by IAIS Board member *Plamen Simeonov*. >>>> >>>> *The session will be recorded *and posted on the YouTube channel of >>>> the IAIS Dialogues: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/@IAISDIALOGUES__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!V7v_akCs3MbPscqUw8dWia5bRGTVua5QTR5q8JJTjmem-bJUui-5O_SPL-ic6bf5iUq5mgXqWqKRwit_p-AUn0nYFbmw$ >>>> >>>> >>>> *? International Academy of Information Studies: >>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.google.com/view/iais-info/home__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!V7v_akCs3MbPscqUw8dWia5bRGTVua5QTR5q8JJTjmem-bJUui-5O_SPL-ic6bf5iUq5mgXqWqKRwit_p-AUn_tCe3K_$ >>>> * >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Fis mailing list >>>> Fis at listas.unizar.es >>>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis >>>> ---------- >>>> INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL >>>> >>>> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada >>>> por la Universidad de Zaragoza. >>>> Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el >>>> siguiente enlace: >>>> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas >>>> Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de >>>> baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. >>>> http://listas.unizar.es >>>> ---------- >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Fis mailing list >>> Fis at listas.unizar.es >>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis >>> ---------- >>> INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL >>> >>> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada >>> por la Universidad de Zaragoza. >>> Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el >>> siguiente enlace: >>> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas >>> Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de >>> baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. >>> http://listas.unizar.es >>> ---------- >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joe.brenner at bluewin.ch Fri Apr 3 18:27:42 2026 From: joe.brenner at bluewin.ch (joe.brenner at bluewin.ch) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2026 18:27:42 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Fis] IAIS Dialogue, Wednesday, March 25th: ON CELLULAR INTELLIGENCE In-Reply-To: References: <3039380a-a3e7-4638-8413-ce398eea91ab@gmail.com> Message-ID: <931004987.3051338.1775233662537@email.bluewin.ch> Dear Francesco, Plamen, Pedro and All, We can all appreciate Easter for what is important and universal in it, with and without theology! Best, Joe > Le 03.04.2026 10:31 CEST, Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov a ?crit : > > > Great! Allowand ing the slap on the other cheek was still OK for me, but the self-humiliating ritual with the washing of the feet of others is something I never understood and will never want to understand. I wonder if the US Pope will make a reform with this tradition. Never assume that the being in front of you can ever be/come like you. That's most probably why Christianity is in such a crisis in Europe and all over the world today! > > Happy Easter! > > Plamen > > > > On Fri, Apr 3, 2026 at 11:01?AM Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com mailto:13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Dearest Pedro and dear all, > > I take the liberty of expressing to you my Easter greetings centered > > on the breaking and sharing of the Eucharistic bread and on the washing > > of the feet, that is, serving men: the two pillars of Christianity, but also > > of every civilization of love or love of civilization under the banner > > of (my) economic Theo-human-ology (Aracne, Rome, 2024). > > A hug, Francis > > > > Il giorno lun 23 mar 2026 alle ore 15:53 Pedro C. Mariju?n ha scritto: > > > > > > > > Dear FIS Colleagues, > > > > > > You are invited to this exciting Dialogue at the International Academy of Information Studies: > > > > > > > > > Theme: ON CELLULAR INTELLIGENCE & CELL THEORY > > > > > > > > > Speakers: > > > > > > Brian J. Ford > > > Biologist and Microscopist, Interdisciplinary Researcher > > > University of Cambridge, Honorary Fellow of Cardiff University > > > > > > Franti?ek Balu?ka > > > Plant Scientist, Integrative Biology Research > > > Institute for Cellular and Molecular Botany, University of Bonn > > > > > > The session will take place on Wednesday, March 25th, at: 17:30 (CET) | 11:30 AM (EST) | 00:30 AM (Thurs.Beijing) > > > In the MEET link: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://meet.google.com/gqm-frcd-apg?pli=1__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QFv-TZ2ATYUAnJzGcy6QW1OLR2Hi9vPTYXiTT6CNTeMVtzFDfuoxOsK5L0WwMKcdkJh1RdS1unhI9jLvXcygGMPGsZs$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://meet.google.com/gqm-frcd-apg?pli=1__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!RdXYU3SOqjdHd5akOfH5n8RQIXz6yMe-CNvD7HG8uBE7Kc-L2Ksx8BZ3US_ywx2OkCCUhg54rfY49HLgvML3eEBxtl7U$ > > > > > > The Dialogue format: each of the speakers will have 20 min. presentation, followed by 15 min. mutual debate, and 30 min. Q&A from the audience. > > > It will be moderated by IAIS Board member Plamen Simeonov. > > > > > > The session will be recorded and posted on the YouTube channel of the IAIS Dialogues: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/@IAISDIALOGUES__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QFv-TZ2ATYUAnJzGcy6QW1OLR2Hi9vPTYXiTT6CNTeMVtzFDfuoxOsK5L0WwMKcdkJh1RdS1unhI9jLvXcygQxTacFA$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/@IAISDIALOGUES__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!RdXYU3SOqjdHd5akOfH5n8RQIXz6yMe-CNvD7HG8uBE7Kc-L2Ksx8BZ3US_ywx2OkCCUhg54rfY49HLgvML3eFiWufZ1$ > > > > > > ? International Academy of Information Studies: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.google.com/view/iais-info/home__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QFv-TZ2ATYUAnJzGcy6QW1OLR2Hi9vPTYXiTT6CNTeMVtzFDfuoxOsK5L0WwMKcdkJh1RdS1unhI9jLvXcygm-NxxJ0$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://sites.google.com/view/iais-info/home__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!RdXYU3SOqjdHd5akOfH5n8RQIXz6yMe-CNvD7HG8uBE7Kc-L2Ksx8BZ3US_ywx2OkCCUhg54rfY49HLgvML3eCfFImnS$ > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Fis mailing list > > > Fis at listas.unizar.es mailto:Fis at listas.unizar.es > > > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > > ---------- > > > INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL > > > > > > Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza. > > > Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas > > > Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. > > > http://listas.unizar.es > > > ---------- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Fis mailing list > > Fis at listas.unizar.es mailto:Fis at listas.unizar.es > > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > > ---------- > > INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL > > > > Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza. > > Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas > > Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. > > http://listas.unizar.es > > ---------- > > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis at listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > ---------- > INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL > > Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza. > Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas > Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. > http://listas.unizar.es > ---------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 22:47:55 2026 From: pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Pedro_C=2E_Mariju=C3=A1n?=) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2026 22:47:55 +0200 Subject: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <91ccd7be-0493-4bff-b31a-78bd0d4711c0@gmail.com> Dear List, We have barely talked on the big topic of our times. I am just resending some brief sentences that indeed depict a Brave, Brave New World (courtesy from Malcolm Dean). Best regards to all, --Pedro -------- Mensaje reenviado ------- /AI?is?something which is going to be wildly?more devastating than any of the?consequences of the mismanaged?technologies of the last 15 years. and/ /the consequences will crash land on?societies all over the world. We are not?prepared for these things at all?economically, society, geopolitically,?environmentally./ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dexhuntertorricke.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka45AxZ-u3$ *Dex Hunter-Torricke* https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.centerfortomorrow.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka4353-Sqh$ *Center for Tomorrow* THE NEXT DECADE IS THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL MOMENT IN HISTORY WE ARE NOT PREPARED https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkPkzhsx_fI__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka48G-Zl93$ Trevor Noah, 19?April 2026? ?(excerpt) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?[ 5:52 ] *The End of Work: Why your kids won't have careers in 15 years * Forget simple automation. *Dex Hunter-Torrick* warns of a near-future where AI doesn't just change jobs, it destroys the prospect of a dignified life for millions. While 12 billionaires hoard more wealth than half the planet, the rest of society is heading toward a "crash landing." We have a narrow window to fix this. -- https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka49EOR_lG$ Trevor Noah, 9?April 2026 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? [ 1:13:39 ] *Dex Hunter-Torricke: Translating the Titans of Tech* In this episode, Trevor sits down with author and strategist *Dex Hunter-Torricke*, who has spent years behind the scenes with some of the most powerful people in tech, including Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk and Eric Schmidt, and has seen influence move from institutions into the hands of a few companies and the people running them. Together, they explore what that shift feels like from the inside, how much power is concentrated at the top, accountability and the lack of it, and what it means when the people shaping the future are also writing the rules as they go. 00:00:00 - The Trial That Changed Everything 00:00:58 - The Name With a Secret Origin 00:02:12 - Tech Giants and the Dutch East India Company 00:04:29 - Growing Up the Only Brown Kid in Town 00:07:37 - Why the UN Doesn't Actually Work 00:11:13 - Why He Studied Russia Before It Was Cool 00:12:53 - Was Russia Always the Villain 00:19:33 - Tech in 2010 Was Still Kind of Punk 00:23:23 - Wait You're In That Book 00:32:34 - The Refugee Photo That Changed Everything 00:40:08 - The Algorithm Is a Choice 00:41:55 - They Weren't Evil Just Apathetic and That's Worse 00:49:16 - Then He Went to Work for Elon 00:58:47 - From Space Dreams to War Machines 00:59:10 - *The AI Reckoning Nobody Is Ready For* .. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sw10014 at cam.ac.uk Fri Apr 24 15:14:10 2026 From: sw10014 at cam.ac.uk (Steve Watson) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2026 13:14:10 +0000 Subject: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] In-Reply-To: <91ccd7be-0493-4bff-b31a-78bd0d4711c0@gmail.com> References: <91ccd7be-0493-4bff-b31a-78bd0d4711c0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pedro, Many thanks for sharing this. I agree that AI is one of the defining issues of our time, but I think the challenge is not only that the technology is powerful or fast-moving. It is that AI is entering societies whose institutions, labour markets, educational systems, legal frameworks and public cultures are already under strain. The danger is therefore not simply ?AI? as a separate force arriving from outside, but the way it becomes woven into existing patterns of wealth, power, work, attention and decision-making. This is why I think we need to be careful about both panic and reassurance. Panic can make the future appear inevitable, as though societies can only wait for impact. Reassurance can be just as dangerous, because it treats AI as another tool that can be managed through ordinary adaptation. Neither seems adequate. The key question, for me, is what kinds of social arrangements will allow people, institutions and communities to remain viable under these new conditions. That includes work, of course, but also education, democratic accountability, public trust, environmental cost, and the distribution of risk. If the benefits of AI are concentrated while the disruptions are passed on to workers, students, local communities and fragile public institutions, then the issue becomes not innovation but legitimacy. So perhaps the task is not to predict whether AI will ?destroy work? or ?transform work? in any simple sense. It is to ask what forms of work, learning, care, judgement and participation we want to preserve, and what institutional changes are needed so that AI does not simply intensify existing inequalities. The future will not be decided by the technology alone. It will be shaped by the choices, silences, incentives and exclusions that surround its adoption. In that sense, I agree with the urgency of the warning. But I would frame the issue less as the arrival of a brave new world, and more as a test of whether our societies can still revise themselves before the costs of their current arrangements become impossible to displace. With best wishes, Steve -- From: Fis on behalf of Pedro C. Mariju?n Date: Wednesday, 22 April 2026 at 21:51 To: 'fis' Subject: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] Dear List, We have barely talked on the big topic of our times. I am just resending some brief sentences that indeed depict a Brave, Brave New World (courtesy from Malcolm Dean). Best regards to all, --Pedro -------- Mensaje reenviado ------- AI is something which is going to be wildly more devastating than any of the consequences of the mismanaged technologies of the last 15 years. and the consequences will crash land on societies all over the world. We are not prepared for these things at all economically, society, geopolitically, environmentally. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dexhuntertorricke.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!W51ED6SBdcMFUATyPkzqFXsfjuzMgB6iSi4O25q96UxWlnozpokuK499FSKYGFuc22yTPBRlhfvKhNt1DkRS$ Dex Hunter-Torricke https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.centerfortomorrow.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!W51ED6SBdcMFUATyPkzqFXsfjuzMgB6iSi4O25q96UxWlnozpokuK499FSKYGFuc22yTPBRlhfvKhLqWM5LB$ Center for Tomorrow THE NEXT DECADE IS THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL MOMENT IN HISTORY WE ARE NOT PREPARED https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkPkzhsx_fI__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!W51ED6SBdcMFUATyPkzqFXsfjuzMgB6iSi4O25q96UxWlnozpokuK499FSKYGFuc22yTPBRlhfvKhET4NzLt$ Trevor Noah, 19 April 2026 (excerpt) [ 5:52 ] The End of Work: Why your kids won't have careers in 15 years Forget simple automation. Dex Hunter-Torrick warns of a near-future where AI doesn't just change jobs, it destroys the prospect of a dignified life for millions. While 12 billionaires hoard more wealth than half the planet, the rest of society is heading toward a "crash landing." We have a narrow window to fix this. -- https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!W51ED6SBdcMFUATyPkzqFXsfjuzMgB6iSi4O25q96UxWlnozpokuK499FSKYGFuc22yTPBRlhfvKhC6IIu01$ Trevor Noah, 9 April 2026 [ 1:13:39 ] Dex Hunter-Torricke: Translating the Titans of Tech In this episode, Trevor sits down with author and strategist Dex Hunter-Torricke, who has spent years behind the scenes with some of the most powerful people in tech, including Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk and Eric Schmidt, and has seen influence move from institutions into the hands of a few companies and the people running them. Together, they explore what that shift feels like from the inside, how much power is concentrated at the top, accountability and the lack of it, and what it means when the people shaping the future are also writing the rules as they go. 00:00:00 - The Trial That Changed Everything 00:00:58 - The Name With a Secret Origin 00:02:12 - Tech Giants and the Dutch East India Company 00:04:29 - Growing Up the Only Brown Kid in Town 00:07:37 - Why the UN Doesn't Actually Work 00:11:13 - Why He Studied Russia Before It Was Cool 00:12:53 - Was Russia Always the Villain 00:19:33 - Tech in 2010 Was Still Kind of Punk 00:23:23 - Wait You're In That Book 00:32:34 - The Refugee Photo That Changed Everything 00:40:08 - The Algorithm Is a Choice 00:41:55 - They Weren't Evil Just Apathetic and That's Worse 00:49:16 - Then He Went to Work for Elon 00:58:47 - From Space Dreams to War Machines 00:59:10 - The AI Reckoning Nobody Is Ready For .. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joe.brenner at bluewin.ch Fri Apr 24 17:02:47 2026 From: joe.brenner at bluewin.ch (joe.brenner at bluewin.ch) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2026 17:02:47 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] In-Reply-To: References: <91ccd7be-0493-4bff-b31a-78bd0d4711c0@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1162398088.2475543.1777042967103@email.bluewin.ch> Dear Steve and Pedro and All, Although there is nothing in Steve's note with which I fundamentally disagree, I find it "wildly" unrealistic in tone. To say only that our institutions "are under strain", or that people in the Middle East or the United States currently benefit from "democratic accountability" is refuted by every morning's news. "Social arrangements" do not allow anything; the question is what people control AI and with what objectives. As Pedro's references show, most of the ways in which AI has been used have been anti-social, especially in areas impacting education, entertainment and elections. It is sad (for me, as an American Democrat) to read that Democrats have been forced into gerrymandering (artificially rearranging districts to further one's party) to try to recapture the House in September's elections. So far, AI seems to have done - no, people have used AI to do - what Steve says in the next-to-last paragraph, namely, intensity existing inequalities as they are promoted by the dregs of our leading capitalists. Does this all mean that FIS needs to have or sponsor a group of militants? No, I am only expressing my ignorance of what information and social action can and should look like to counter the actions of the Vances, Musks, Kennedy, Jrs. and Netanyahus. Perhaps Steve's own approach of Autopoetic Ecology (AE) has implications for the struggle. Cheers, Joe > Le 24.04.2026 15:14 CEST, Steve Watson a ?crit : > > > > Dear Pedro, > > Many thanks for sharing this. > > I agree that AI is one of the defining issues of our time, but I think the challenge is not only that the technology is powerful or fast-moving. It is that AI is entering societies whose institutions, labour markets, educational systems, legal frameworks and public cultures are already under strain. The danger is therefore not simply ?AI? as a separate force arriving from outside, but the way it becomes woven into existing patterns of wealth, power, work, attention and decision-making. > > This is why I think we need to be careful about both panic and reassurance. Panic can make the future appear inevitable, as though societies can only wait for impact. Reassurance can be just as dangerous, because it treats AI as another tool that can be managed through ordinary adaptation. Neither seems adequate. > > The key question, for me, is what kinds of social arrangements will allow people, institutions and communities to remain viable under these new conditions. That includes work, of course, but also education, democratic accountability, public trust, environmental cost, and the distribution of risk. If the benefits of AI are concentrated while the disruptions are passed on to workers, students, local communities and fragile public institutions, then the issue becomes not innovation but legitimacy. > > So perhaps the task is not to predict whether AI will ?destroy work? or ?transform work? in any simple sense. It is to ask what forms of work, learning, care, judgement and participation we want to preserve, and what institutional changes are needed so that AI does not simply intensify existing inequalities. The future will not be decided by the technology alone. It will be shaped by the choices, silences, incentives and exclusions that surround its adoption. > > In that sense, I agree with the urgency of the warning. But I would frame the issue less as the arrival of a brave new world, and more as a test of whether our societies can still revise themselves before the costs of their current arrangements become impossible to displace. > > With best wishes, > > Steve > > > > -- > > > From: Fis on behalf of Pedro C. Mariju?n > Date: Wednesday, 22 April 2026 at 21:51 > To: 'fis' > Subject: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] > > > Dear List, > > We have barely talked on the big topic of our times. I am just resending some brief sentences that indeed depict a Brave, Brave New World (courtesy from Malcolm Dean). > > Best regards to all, > --Pedro > > -------- Mensaje reenviado ------- > AI is something which is going to be wildly more devastating than any of the consequences of the mismanaged technologies of the last 15 years. and > the consequences will crash land on societies all over the world. We are not prepared for these things at all economically, society, geopolitically, environmentally. > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dexhuntertorricke.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SBw9rsdknsVyQsRqjJPWNRuM4Sja7ndyCrjpXzQbcx6p3Fsh6Z8kuKF59_SSffvFH45SNyHcNtt8dbcArFY8c8ZHj0E$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dexhuntertorricke.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka45AxZ-u3$ > Dex Hunter-Torricke > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.centerfortomorrow.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SBw9rsdknsVyQsRqjJPWNRuM4Sja7ndyCrjpXzQbcx6p3Fsh6Z8kuKF59_SSffvFH45SNyHcNtt8dbcArFY8TynmCX8$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.centerfortomorrow.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka4353-Sqh$ > Center for Tomorrow > THE NEXT DECADE IS THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL MOMENT IN HISTORY > WE ARE NOT PREPARED > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkPkzhsx_fI__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SBw9rsdknsVyQsRqjJPWNRuM4Sja7ndyCrjpXzQbcx6p3Fsh6Z8kuKF59_SSffvFH45SNyHcNtt8dbcArFY8wWfvPn4$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkPkzhsx_fI__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka48G-Zl93$ > Trevor Noah, 19 April 2026 (excerpt) [ 5:52 ] > The End of Work: Why your kids won't have careers in 15 years > > Forget simple automation. Dex Hunter-Torrick warns of a near-future where AI doesn't just change jobs, it destroys the prospect of a dignified life for millions. While 12 billionaires hoard more wealth than half the planet, the rest of society is heading toward a "crash landing." We have a narrow window to fix this. > > -- > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SBw9rsdknsVyQsRqjJPWNRuM4Sja7ndyCrjpXzQbcx6p3Fsh6Z8kuKF59_SSffvFH45SNyHcNtt8dbcArFY8KUmoam4$ https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka49EOR_lG$ > Trevor Noah, 9 April 2026 [ 1:13:39 ] > Dex Hunter-Torricke: Translating the Titans of Tech > > In this episode, Trevor sits down with author and strategist Dex Hunter-Torricke, who has spent years behind the scenes with some of the most powerful people in tech, including Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk and Eric Schmidt, and has seen influence move from institutions into the hands of a few companies and the people running them. Together, they explore what that shift feels like from the inside, how much power is concentrated at the top, accountability and the lack of it, and what it means when the people shaping the future are also writing the rules as they go. > > > 00:00:00 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka49EOR_lG$ - The Trial That Changed Everything 00:00:58 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM&t=58s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka49NhHxXb$ - The Name With a Secret Origin 00:02:12 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM&t=132s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka45PmY-pp$ - Tech Giants and the Dutch East India Company 00:04:29 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM&t=269s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka45HlzJJA$ - Growing Up the Only Brown Kid in Town 00:07:37 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM&t=457s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka4yp468Rp$ - Why the UN Doesn't Actually Work 00:11:13 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM&t=673s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka46ua6ScF$ - Why He Studied Russia Before It Was Cool 00:12:53 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM&t=773s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka40BhT6Rx$ - Was Russia Always the Villain 00:19:33 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM&t=1173s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka4xBpwB6V$ - Tech in 2010 Was Still Kind of Punk 00:23:23 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM&t=1403s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka468Rv2Es$ - Wait You're In That Book 00:32:34 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM&t=1954s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka49Uxe6I7$ - The Refugee Photo That Changed Everything 00:40:08 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM&t=2408s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka4wCnQUA8$ - The Algorithm Is a Choice 00:41:55 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM&t=2515s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka43gtBgwZ$ - They Weren't Evil Just Apathetic and That's Worse 00:49:16 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM&t=2956s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka4wmmRrCN$ - Then He Went to Work for Elon 00:58:47 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM&t=3527s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka40OOW6uK$ - From Space Dreams to War Machines 00:59:10 https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM&t=3550s__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XyTKCk-xExTEWgtfvmGsmJZr8nvJ1UJx8Vq9yCjU0aeKgfgrKX0Q3Rz83RRlrq9_U_MUMGImudHXBPb8ZAka4yqhO4xY$ - The AI Reckoning Nobody Is Ready For > > > .. > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis at listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > ---------- > INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL > > Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza. > Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas > Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. > http://listas.unizar.es > ---------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 17:20:47 2026 From: plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com (Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2026 18:20:47 +0300 Subject: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] In-Reply-To: <1162398088.2475543.1777042967103@email.bluewin.ch> References: <91ccd7be-0493-4bff-b31a-78bd0d4711c0@gmail.com> <1162398088.2475543.1777042967103@email.bluewin.ch> Message-ID: Dear All, to all of you regarding this topic: I share an interesting article I read in Medium today. Our time is not completely gone yet. Heads up. Plamen ############################################### The Spectacular Failure of AI in the Physical WorldA painful lesson when AI faces real world problems. But there is a solution. [image: Jose Crespo, PhD] Jose Crespo, PhD 8 min read ? 2 hours ago 140 1 [image: cover-animation] Figures, animations, diagrams, and plots were created by the author using Stable Diffusion, Blender, and Python libraries. *Time to judge current AI* on its own merits, facing the real world, which is not a tidy chatbot window, not something you can summarize into a benchmark , and least of all a controlled demo. We know that critical situations in our familiar world can turn it into a brutal place where conditions shift faster than any frozen AI model can match. And there you have the perfect example: our familiar drones, and the dream of turning them into a machine fused with AI that handles everything from civilian logistics to military strikes . What other example would show us the supposedly limitless capabilities of AI in the real world better than this one? So yeah, we are right to expect that if real AI were already available, it would have been implemented in these machines first, especially the precision military hunters. They should look almost extraterrestrial in capability, executing operations no human-controlled device could match, above all those synchronized maneuvers of dozens of drones moving through real landscapes under real pressure, in real time. Now wake up to 2026. And to the years that follow, if we do not change the flat AI paradigm, and what you get? The miserable ?state of the art? showing in the table below. Press enter or click to view image in full size [image: Now wake up to 2026. And to the years that follow, if we do not change the flat AI paradigm, and what you get? The miserable ?state of the art? showing in the table below.] You see. Many billions of dollars spent on machines that cannot tell a hill from a valley, hold altitude when the temperature drops, or, my favorite, the drone cannot hit a moving target the way any twelve-year-old does on a PlayStation, by aiming at where the enemy will be, not where it is. And what has been the industry response to those blunders? The usual polished shrug, a press release for every incident, blaming the rotor, the weather, the test conditions, anything except that all those failures come from the same broken mathematics running inside the drone-brain. The Four Ways AI Hits the Real World Wall Before we unravel the possible solution in the next section, let?s look at the failures themselves, not as accidents but as archetypes. Each one exposes a different face of the same architectural limitation, and together they map the ways a trained model collapses the moment the world stops matching the training set. Watch them carefully. The solution comes later; I am sure you can already come up with some possibilities while examining these simplified animations. *First Type:* The Map Is Not the Territory The training data of course contained hills and terrain irregularities. But the battlefield in Ukraine was more nuanced than the training set anticipated. The drone flew at the altitude its model had learned was safe, straight into a particular hill the model had never identified as such, because the architecture had no mechanism to notice that the world in front of it no longer matched the world it had been trained on. [image: First Type: The Map Is Not the Territory] Second Type: Summer Training, Winter Battlefield You and I know the story about Napoleon and Hitler, their armies eaten alive by the Russian winter, and you can certainly expect that a multi-billion-dollar AI defense contractor knows that story too. But look at this: the drone lost control not because any component physically broke, but because the architecture had no mechanism to notice that summer and winter in Russia are not the same thing. [image: Second Type: Summer Training, Winter Battlefield] Third Type: You Had the Right Directions but They Changed the Streets The drone had the map, the waypoints, and the trained confidence, but it had no mechanism to notice that the enemy was jamming its GPS , spoofing its signals, and stripping its world of every reference the training set had taught it to trust. [image: Third Type: You Had the Right Directions but They Changed the Streets] Fourth Type: Aiming at Where the Enemy Was The drone had the coordinates, the flight path, and the warhead, but it had no mechanism to notice that by the moment of firing, the target had already walked off to have lunch . Oh boy! [image: Fourth Type: Aiming at Where the Enemy Was] Let?s pop the hood and look inside Sure, by now you probably have your own theories about what is going wrong inside these drones, and some of them are probably right. But stay with me for a moment and let?s start simpler than that. Strip everything down to the most basic layer. The foundation itself is already riddled with trouble the moment current AI meets the real world. Yes, the canary in the mine is *the metric. * That is where the first crack appears. The metric is just the ruler the system uses internally. It decides what counts as a small change, a big change, a harmless move, or a dangerous one. If that ruler is wrong, the whole machine can keep reporting smooth progress while reality has already turned hostile. So let?s start with the ruler. Before a system can deal with the real world, it has to know what counts as an important change and what does not. That is what a metric does. It is the ruler inside the model. Most current AI uses a flat Euclidean ruler . On paper, that means equal coordinate steps look like equal progress. But the drone does not move through paper. It moves through the real world, where two equally sized updates can have very different consequences . That is what the figure below shows. On the left, the flat ruler treats equal updates as equal motion. On the right, the Fisher ruler tries to measure the step by how much the model?s behavior actually changes. Same update in the model. Different effect in reality. Press enter or click to view image in full size [image: Same coordinate step, different real effect. On the left, the Euclidean metric treats equal parameter updates as equal motion in a flat chart. On the right, the Fisher metric measures the step by how much the model?s output distribution actually changes. Same update on paper. Different behavioral consequence.] *Same coordinate step, different real effect.* On the left, the Euclidean metric treats equal parameter updates as equal motion in a flat chart. On the right, the Fisher metric measures the step by how much the model?s output distribution actually changes. Same update on paper. Different behavioral consequence. Now apply the metric story: how a drone can miss a hill even when Everest is right in front of it The metric story becomes easier to see when we stop talking in abstractions and watch a simple failure unfold. So let?s run the experiment with some cinematic tension: the same doomed AI drone, the same irregular hills, the same battlefield ? and only one change inside the machine: the ruler it uses to measure the world. *Flat metric: equal steps, invisible death* Everything inside the machine says the flight is going perfectly at the exact moment the drone is about to die. Its Euclidean ruler keeps reporting smooth, equal-looking progress through parameter space, while the world in front of it has already turned into a wall. The architecture is poorly equipped to tell the difference between a coordinate step that carries the drone harmlessly through open air and one that drives it straight into the side of a hill, because under that flat internal ruler both can register as minor variation. Press enter or click to view image in full size [image: Equal steps. Invisible death. The flat metric reports every training step as identical ? same size, same cost, same confidence. And it is right, in its own ruler. What it cannot see is that the same ruler which made the steps equal on paper made the output space collapse into a wall. Nothing went wrong. Nothing was mismeasured. The unit simply had no term for the thing that killed the drone.] *Equal steps. Invisible death.* The flat metric reports every training step as identical ? same size, same cost, same confidence. And it is right, in its own ruler. What it cannot see is that the same ruler which made the steps equal on paper made the output space collapse into a wall. Nothing went wrong. Nothing was mismeasured. The unit simply had no term for the thing that killed the drone. *Finally: The Drone Uses the Right Ruler* Now, finally, the ruler inside the machine is telling the truth before the drone dies. Its Fisher ruler no longer reports smooth, equal-looking progress just because the coordinate steps are the same length. It measures updates by how much they actually change the drone?s behavior . The architecture becomes far better at telling the difference between a step that carries the drone safely through open air and one that drives it toward the side of a hill, because under this ruler the two no longer register as minor variation . The danger appears sooner, the path bends earlier, and the drone sees the wall in time and clears it gracefully. Press enter or click to view image in full size [image: Same drone. Same hurdle. Different ruler. The flat-metric AI took equal steps and never saw the obstacle that killed it. The Fisher-aware AI measured the same world with a ruler that bends to the geometry of its own behavior ? and climbed right over the thing that should have been impossible. Not a better model. A different unit.] *Same drone. Same hurdle, but different ruler*. The flat-metric AI took equal steps and never saw the obstacle that killed it. The Fisher-aware AI measured the same world with a ruler that bends to the geometry of its own behavior ? and climbed right over the thing that should have been impossible. Not a better model. A different unit. But the Real Fix Is Bigger Than the Metric The metric was the first crack. It showed us the ruler was wrong. But the deeper failure ? the one that has done the most damage to AI research from the start ? is even larger: the field became obsessed with *computation* while largely ignoring the *geometry of the space in which that computation runs*. *That mistake is enormous.* Because computation never happens in a vacuum. Every update, every inference step, every learned pattern is moving through some space. And if that space is treated as flat when it is not, then more computation does not solve the problem. It only lets the system move faster inside the wrong world. *That is exactly what the drones exposed in the most brutal possible way.*They were not failing because computation had stopped. On the contrary, computation was still running beautifully inside the machine right up to the edge of disaster. The failure was that all this internal calculation was unfolding in an architecture too flat to grasp the real geometry of the battlefield: hills treated as minor variation, winter treated as cosmetic noise, spoofed signals handled as trustworthy references, moving targets taken as if they were still standing still. The drone is the perfect real-world autopsy of the computation-alone mindset: immense processing power, and still blind to the shape of the world it was moving through. A better metric helps because it is the first place where that neglected geometry becomes impossible to ignore. But by this point, you can probably already feel the problem: necessary, yes.. sufficient, no. Because the real world does not just demand more computation or a better ruler. It demands an architecture that mirrors the space it lives in. At the fast layer, the system needs a *Bayesian graph of beliefs *to update what it thinks in real time. At the middle layer, it needs the *Fisher geometry* to measure learning by behavioral consequence, not just coordinate motion. And above both, it needs a *global topological scaffold * to track loops, context shifts, and regime changes that flat AI keeps mistaking for more of the same. The figure below is half artistic, half scientific, but the idea is real: not just more computation, not just a patched metric, but a multilayered AI built on the geometry that computation was always supposed to respect. More on that in the stories to come. Press enter or click to view image in full size [image: THE MULTILAYERED AI STACK This is what an AI architecture looks like when the mathematics is finally allowed onto the page: a toroidal-solenoidal scaffold for slow regime shifts, a Fisher-geometric middle layer for behavior-aware local learning, and a Bayesian graph of beliefs for real-time posterior updating, all coupled across different clocks in a closed loop.] *THE MULTILAYERED AI STACK* This is what an AI architecture looks like when the mathematics is finally allowed onto the page: a toroidal-solenoidal scaffold for slow regime shifts, a Fisher-geometric middle layer for behavior-aware local learning, and a Bayesian graph of beliefs for real-time posterior updating, all coupled across different clocks in a closed loop. On Fri, Apr 24, 2026 at 6:03?PM wrote: > Dear Steve and Pedro and All, > > Although there is nothing in Steve's note with which I fundamentally > disagree, I find it "wildly" unrealistic in tone. To say only that our > institutions "are under strain", or that people in the Middle East or the > United States currently benefit from "democratic accountability" is refuted > by every morning's news. > > "Social arrangements" do not allow anything; the question is what > *people *control AI and with what objectives. As Pedro's references show, > most of the ways in which AI has been used have been anti-social, > especially in areas impacting education, entertainment and elections. It is > sad (for me, as an American Democrat) to read that *Democrats *have been > forced into gerrymandering (artificially rearranging districts to further > one's party) to try to recapture the House in September's elections. > > So far, AI seems to have done - no, people have used AI to do - what > Steve says in the next-to-last paragraph, namely, intensity existing > inequalities as they are promoted by the dregs of our leading capitalists. > > Does this all mean that FIS needs to have or sponsor a group of militants? > No, I am only expressing my ignorance of what information and social action > can and should look like to counter the actions of the Vances, Musks, > Kennedy, Jrs. and Netanyahus. Perhaps Steve's own approach of Autopoetic > Ecology (AE) has implications for the struggle. > > Cheers, > Joe > > Le 24.04.2026 15:14 CEST, Steve Watson a ?crit : > > > > Dear Pedro, > > Many thanks for sharing this. > > I agree that AI is one of the defining issues of our time, but I think the > challenge is not only that the technology is powerful or fast-moving. It is > that AI is entering societies whose institutions, labour markets, > educational systems, legal frameworks and public cultures are already under > strain. The danger is therefore not simply ?AI? as a separate force > arriving from outside, but the way it becomes woven into existing patterns > of wealth, power, work, attention and decision-making. > > This is why I think we need to be careful about both panic and > reassurance. Panic can make the future appear inevitable, as though > societies can only wait for impact. Reassurance can be just as dangerous, > because it treats AI as another tool that can be managed through ordinary > adaptation. Neither seems adequate. > > The key question, for me, is what kinds of social arrangements will allow > people, institutions and communities to remain viable under these new > conditions. That includes work, of course, but also education, democratic > accountability, public trust, environmental cost, and the distribution of > risk. If the benefits of AI are concentrated while the disruptions are > passed on to workers, students, local communities and fragile public > institutions, then the issue becomes not innovation but legitimacy. > > So perhaps the task is not to predict whether AI will ?destroy work? or > ?transform work? in any simple sense. It is to ask what forms of work, > learning, care, judgement and participation we want to preserve, and what > institutional changes are needed so that AI does not simply intensify > existing inequalities. The future will not be decided by the technology > alone. It will be shaped by the choices, silences, incentives and > exclusions that surround its adoption. > > In that sense, I agree with the urgency of the warning. But I would frame > the issue less as the arrival of a brave new world, and more as a test of > whether our societies can still revise themselves before the costs of their > current arrangements become impossible to displace. > > With best wishes, > > Steve > > > -- > > > *From: *Fis on behalf of Pedro C. Mariju?n > > *Date: *Wednesday, 22 April 2026 at 21:51 > *To: *'fis' > *Subject: *[Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any > recent technology [ ??? ] > > Dear List, > > We have barely talked on the big topic of our times. I am just resending > some brief sentences that indeed depict a Brave, Brave New World (courtesy > from Malcolm Dean). > Best regards to all, > --Pedro > > -------- Mensaje reenviado ------- > *AI is something which is going to be wildly more devastating than any of > the consequences of the mismanaged technologies of the last 15 years. and* > *the consequences will crash land on societies all over the world. We are > not prepared for these things at all economically, society, > geopolitically, environmentally.* > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dexhuntertorricke.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UIm9YoLg-cQEpy3rQN9lVorVCXlJm7cqvSsv4rGhldTyqb0mASHSuMjSl7KMZpfmaa012Tv_lZRlPCttjfWHGGFIPBvx$ > > *Dex Hunter-Torricke* > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.centerfortomorrow.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UIm9YoLg-cQEpy3rQN9lVorVCXlJm7cqvSsv4rGhldTyqb0mASHSuMjSl7KMZpfmaa012Tv_lZRlPCttjfWHGMn4hKYg$ > > *Center for Tomorrow* > THE NEXT DECADE IS THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL MOMENT IN HISTORY > WE ARE NOT PREPARED > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkPkzhsx_fI__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UIm9YoLg-cQEpy3rQN9lVorVCXlJm7cqvSsv4rGhldTyqb0mASHSuMjSl7KMZpfmaa012Tv_lZRlPCttjfWHGLHD2bkV$ > > Trevor Noah, 19 April 2026 (excerpt) > [ 5:52 ] > > *The End of Work: Why your kids won't have careers in 15 years * > Forget simple automation. *Dex Hunter-Torrick* warns of a near-future > where AI doesn't just change jobs, it destroys the prospect of a dignified > life for millions. While 12 billionaires hoard more wealth than half the > planet, the rest of society is heading toward a "crash landing." We have a > narrow window to fix this. > > -- > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UIm9YoLg-cQEpy3rQN9lVorVCXlJm7cqvSsv4rGhldTyqb0mASHSuMjSl7KMZpfmaa012Tv_lZRlPCttjfWHGLroy4H6$ > > Trevor Noah, 9 April 2026 > [ 1:13:39 ] > *Dex Hunter-Torricke: Translating the Titans of Tech* > > In this episode, Trevor sits down with author and strategist *Dex > Hunter-Torricke*, who has spent years behind the scenes with some of the > most powerful people in tech, including Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk and Eric > Schmidt, and has seen influence move from institutions into the hands of a > few companies and the people running them. Together, they explore what that > shift feels like from the inside, how much power is concentrated at the > top, accountability and the lack of it, and what it means when the people > shaping the future are also writing the rules as they go. > 00:00:00 > - > The Trial That Changed Everything 00:00:58 > - > The Name With a Secret Origin 00:02:12 > - > Tech Giants and the Dutch East India Company 00:04:29 > - > Growing Up the Only Brown Kid in Town 00:07:37 > - > Why the UN Doesn't Actually Work 00:11:13 > - > Why He Studied Russia Before It Was Cool 00:12:53 > - > Was Russia Always the Villain 00:19:33 > - > Tech in 2010 Was Still Kind of Punk 00:23:23 > - > Wait You're In That Book 00:32:34 > - > The Refugee Photo That Changed Everything 00:40:08 > - > The Algorithm Is a Choice 00:41:55 > - > They Weren't Evil Just Apathetic and That's Worse 00:49:16 > - > Then He Went to Work for Elon 00:58:47 > - > From Space Dreams to War Machines 00:59:10 > - > *The AI Reckoning Nobody Is Ready For* > .. > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis at listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > ---------- > INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL > > Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por > la Universidad de Zaragoza. > Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el > siguiente enlace: > https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas > Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de > baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. > http://listas.unizar.es > ---------- > > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis at listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > ---------- > INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL > > Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por > la Universidad de Zaragoza. > Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el > siguiente enlace: > https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas > Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de > baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. > http://listas.unizar.es > ---------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jtorday at ucla.edu Fri Apr 24 18:28:47 2026 From: jtorday at ucla.edu (JOHN TORDAY) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2026 12:28:47 -0400 Subject: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] In-Reply-To: <91ccd7be-0493-4bff-b31a-78bd0d4711c0@gmail.com> References: <91ccd7be-0493-4bff-b31a-78bd0d4711c0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Pedro et al., as I see it, our consciousness is embedded in our physiology, as I shared with FIS a while back. In that vein, AI can account for local consciousness, but not for non-local consciousness, the latter being executed by the 'observer' as our connection with the Cosmos. But, if AI can be made to appear complex, the end-users may think that it's accounting for non-local consciousness....which puts non-local consciousness as our 'birthright' at risk. Please feel free to comment... Best, John On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 4:48?PM Pedro C. Mariju?n wrote: > Dear List, > > We have barely talked on the big topic of our times. I am just resending > some brief sentences that indeed depict a Brave, Brave New World (courtesy > from Malcolm Dean). > Best regards to all, > --Pedro > > -------- Mensaje reenviado ------- > *AI is something which is going to be wildly more devastating than any of > the consequences of the mismanaged technologies of the last 15 years. and* > *the consequences will crash land on societies all over the world. We are > not prepared for these things at all economically, society, > geopolitically, environmentally.* > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dexhuntertorricke.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Wtm8U3DhbPxCc1zgkAWsmnoIDvWjyaHN_iRnRDFVJG6mD9qu26dEw08PxU3JNRBOO-DGuEQ6r2aGcipiHmg$ > > *Dex Hunter-Torricke* > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.centerfortomorrow.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Wtm8U3DhbPxCc1zgkAWsmnoIDvWjyaHN_iRnRDFVJG6mD9qu26dEw08PxU3JNRBOO-DGuEQ6r2aGIN9Wh-M$ > > *Center for Tomorrow* > THE NEXT DECADE IS THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL MOMENT IN HISTORY > WE ARE NOT PREPARED > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkPkzhsx_fI__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Wtm8U3DhbPxCc1zgkAWsmnoIDvWjyaHN_iRnRDFVJG6mD9qu26dEw08PxU3JNRBOO-DGuEQ6r2aGm05yW5M$ > > Trevor Noah, 19 April 2026 (excerpt) > [ 5:52 ] > > *The End of Work: Why your kids won't have careers in 15 years * > Forget simple automation. *Dex Hunter-Torrick* warns of a near-future > where AI doesn't just change jobs, it destroys the prospect of a dignified > life for millions. While 12 billionaires hoard more wealth than half the > planet, the rest of society is heading toward a "crash landing." We have a > narrow window to fix this. > > -- > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Wtm8U3DhbPxCc1zgkAWsmnoIDvWjyaHN_iRnRDFVJG6mD9qu26dEw08PxU3JNRBOO-DGuEQ6r2aG7E2faYA$ > > Trevor Noah, 9 April 2026 > [ 1:13:39 ] > *Dex Hunter-Torricke: Translating the Titans of Tech* > > In this episode, Trevor sits down with author and strategist *Dex > Hunter-Torricke*, who has spent years behind the scenes with some of the > most powerful people in tech, including Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk and Eric > Schmidt, and has seen influence move from institutions into the hands of a > few companies and the people running them. Together, they explore what > that shift feels like from the inside, how much power is concentrated at > the top, accountability and the lack of it, and what it means when the > people shaping the future are also writing the rules as they go. > 00:00:00 > > - The Trial That Changed Everything 00:00:58 > > - The Name With a Secret Origin 00:02:12 > > - Tech Giants and the Dutch East India Company 00:04:29 > > - Growing Up the Only Brown Kid in Town 00:07:37 > > - Why the UN Doesn't Actually Work 00:11:13 > > - Why He Studied Russia Before It Was Cool 00:12:53 > > - Was Russia Always the Villain 00:19:33 > > - Tech in 2010 Was Still Kind of Punk 00:23:23 > > - Wait You're In That Book 00:32:34 > > - The Refugee Photo That Changed Everything 00:40:08 > > - The Algorithm Is a Choice 00:41:55 > > - They Weren't Evil Just Apathetic and That's Worse 00:49:16 > > - Then He Went to Work for Elon 00:58:47 > > - From Space Dreams to War Machines 00:59:10 > > - *The AI Reckoning Nobody Is Ready For* > .. > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis at listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > ---------- > INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL > > Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por > la Universidad de Zaragoza. > Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el > siguiente enlace: > https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas > Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de > baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. > http://listas.unizar.es > ---------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sw10014 at cam.ac.uk Fri Apr 24 19:00:00 2026 From: sw10014 at cam.ac.uk (Steve Watson) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2026 17:00:00 +0000 Subject: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] In-Reply-To: <1162398088.2475543.1777042967103@email.bluewin.ch> References: <91ccd7be-0493-4bff-b31a-78bd0d4711c0@gmail.com> <1162398088.2475543.1777042967103@email.bluewin.ch> Message-ID: Dear Joe, Pedro and All, Many thanks, Joe. I take the point, and I think it is a fair challenge. On reflection, ?under strain? may indeed have been too mild a phrase. In many contexts, what we are seeing is not simply institutional strain, but institutional failure, capture, or active erosion. Democratic accountability, public trust, education, media, and the conditions for meaningful work are not secure achievements. They have to be continually renewed, and in many places they are currently being weakened faster than they are being repaired. I also agree with your correction that ?social arrangements? do not act by themselves. People, organisations, states, corporations and movements act, and they act with interests, resources and objectives. AI does not have political intentions of its own, but it is being developed and deployed within highly unequal fields of power. That is why the crucial question is not simply what AI can do, but who gets to decide what it is for, who benefits, who absorbs the risks, and what forms of resistance or accountability remain possible. Where I would perhaps put the emphasis is this: AI intensifies existing patterns rather than simply inventing new ones. If education is already being hollowed out by performativity, AI can accelerate that. If elections are already vulnerable to manipulation, AI can amplify that. If culture is already dominated by attention capture, AI can deepen it. If labour is already precarious, AI can make that precarity appear efficient or inevitable. In each case, the technology does not arrive into a neutral society. It enters already damaged systems and often strengthens the very tendencies that most need to be interrupted. So yes, I think the implications of my own approach would be that the struggle cannot only be about better information, although that matters. It also has to be about keeping open the channels through which institutions, publics and communities can correct themselves. That means contestability, transparency, education, public capacity, independent expertise, democratic oversight, and forms of collective organisation that can make the costs of AI visible rather than allowing them to be displaced onto the least powerful. I do not think this means FIS needs to become a militant organisation in any simple sense. But perhaps it does mean that spaces such as FIS have a responsibility to help clarify what is at stake: not only technically, but socially, politically and ethically. The issue is not only intelligence, but power; not only innovation, but repair; not only prediction, but the conditions under which people can still participate in shaping the futures being built around them. With best wishes, Steve -- From: joe.brenner at bluewin.ch Date: Friday, 24 April 2026 at 16:02 To: Steve Watson ; Pedro C. Mariju?n ; fis Subject: Re: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] Dear Steve and Pedro and All, Although there is nothing in Steve's note with which I fundamentally disagree, I find it "wildly" unrealistic in tone. To say only that our institutions "are under strain", or that people in the Middle East or the United States currently benefit from "democratic accountability" is refuted by every morning's news. "Social arrangements" do not allow anything; the question is what people control AI and with what objectives. As Pedro's references show, most of the ways in which AI has been used have been anti-social, especially in areas impacting education, entertainment and elections. It is sad (for me, as an American Democrat) to read that Democrats have been forced into gerrymandering (artificially rearranging districts to further one's party) to try to recapture the House in September's elections. So far, AI seems to have done - no, people have used AI to do - what Steve says in the next-to-last paragraph, namely, intensity existing inequalities as they are promoted by the dregs of our leading capitalists. Does this all mean that FIS needs to have or sponsor a group of militants? No, I am only expressing my ignorance of what information and social action can and should look like to counter the actions of the Vances, Musks, Kennedy, Jrs. and Netanyahus. Perhaps Steve's own approach of Autopoetic Ecology (AE) has implications for the struggle. Cheers, Joe Le 24.04.2026 15:14 CEST, Steve Watson a ?crit : Dear Pedro, Many thanks for sharing this. I agree that AI is one of the defining issues of our time, but I think the challenge is not only that the technology is powerful or fast-moving. It is that AI is entering societies whose institutions, labour markets, educational systems, legal frameworks and public cultures are already under strain. The danger is therefore not simply ?AI? as a separate force arriving from outside, but the way it becomes woven into existing patterns of wealth, power, work, attention and decision-making. This is why I think we need to be careful about both panic and reassurance. Panic can make the future appear inevitable, as though societies can only wait for impact. Reassurance can be just as dangerous, because it treats AI as another tool that can be managed through ordinary adaptation. Neither seems adequate. The key question, for me, is what kinds of social arrangements will allow people, institutions and communities to remain viable under these new conditions. That includes work, of course, but also education, democratic accountability, public trust, environmental cost, and the distribution of risk. If the benefits of AI are concentrated while the disruptions are passed on to workers, students, local communities and fragile public institutions, then the issue becomes not innovation but legitimacy. So perhaps the task is not to predict whether AI will ?destroy work? or ?transform work? in any simple sense. It is to ask what forms of work, learning, care, judgement and participation we want to preserve, and what institutional changes are needed so that AI does not simply intensify existing inequalities. The future will not be decided by the technology alone. It will be shaped by the choices, silences, incentives and exclusions that surround its adoption. In that sense, I agree with the urgency of the warning. But I would frame the issue less as the arrival of a brave new world, and more as a test of whether our societies can still revise themselves before the costs of their current arrangements become impossible to displace. With best wishes, Steve -- From: Fis on behalf of Pedro C. Mariju?n Date: Wednesday, 22 April 2026 at 21:51 To: 'fis' Subject: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] Dear List, We have barely talked on the big topic of our times. I am just resending some brief sentences that indeed depict a Brave, Brave New World (courtesy from Malcolm Dean). Best regards to all, --Pedro -------- Mensaje reenviado ------- AI is something which is going to be wildly more devastating than any of the consequences of the mismanaged technologies of the last 15 years. and the consequences will crash land on societies all over the world. We are not prepared for these things at all economically, society, geopolitically, environmentally. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dexhuntertorricke.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VlkVcd1rShCwBt553VMj9lZUaqeaLrS_I9ybFU4UjqJaNnXJabIr3H3IKFEGR-0_qIlwawXfBFVbnOfv8QA2$ Dex Hunter-Torricke https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.centerfortomorrow.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VlkVcd1rShCwBt553VMj9lZUaqeaLrS_I9ybFU4UjqJaNnXJabIr3H3IKFEGR-0_qIlwawXfBFVbnPwdzxFo$ Center for Tomorrow THE NEXT DECADE IS THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL MOMENT IN HISTORY WE ARE NOT PREPARED https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkPkzhsx_fI__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VlkVcd1rShCwBt553VMj9lZUaqeaLrS_I9ybFU4UjqJaNnXJabIr3H3IKFEGR-0_qIlwawXfBFVbnKOBhKGi$ Trevor Noah, 19 April 2026 (excerpt) [ 5:52 ] The End of Work: Why your kids won't have careers in 15 years Forget simple automation. Dex Hunter-Torrick warns of a near-future where AI doesn't just change jobs, it destroys the prospect of a dignified life for millions. While 12 billionaires hoard more wealth than half the planet, the rest of society is heading toward a "crash landing." We have a narrow window to fix this. -- https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VlkVcd1rShCwBt553VMj9lZUaqeaLrS_I9ybFU4UjqJaNnXJabIr3H3IKFEGR-0_qIlwawXfBFVbnFhGgZhj$ Trevor Noah, 9 April 2026 [ 1:13:39 ] Dex Hunter-Torricke: Translating the Titans of Tech In this episode, Trevor sits down with author and strategist Dex Hunter-Torricke, who has spent years behind the scenes with some of the most powerful people in tech, including Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk and Eric Schmidt, and has seen influence move from institutions into the hands of a few companies and the people running them. Together, they explore what that shift feels like from the inside, how much power is concentrated at the top, accountability and the lack of it, and what it means when the people shaping the future are also writing the rules as they go. 00:00:00 - The Trial That Changed Everything 00:00:58 - The Name With a Secret Origin 00:02:12 - Tech Giants and the Dutch East India Company 00:04:29 - Growing Up the Only Brown Kid in Town 00:07:37 - Why the UN Doesn't Actually Work 00:11:13 - Why He Studied Russia Before It Was Cool 00:12:53 - Was Russia Always the Villain 00:19:33 - Tech in 2010 Was Still Kind of Punk 00:23:23 - Wait You're In That Book 00:32:34 - The Refugee Photo That Changed Everything 00:40:08 - The Algorithm Is a Choice 00:41:55 - They Weren't Evil Just Apathetic and That's Worse 00:49:16 - Then He Went to Work for Elon 00:58:47 - From Space Dreams to War Machines 00:59:10 - The AI Reckoning Nobody Is Ready For .. _______________________________________________ Fis mailing list Fis at listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ---------- INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza. Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. http://listas.unizar.es ---------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 20:43:34 2026 From: plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com (Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2026 21:43:34 +0300 Subject: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] In-Reply-To: References: <91ccd7be-0493-4bff-b31a-78bd0d4711c0@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am afraid, John, that those who work with distributed intelligence, e.g. the agent swarm folks which can replicate identical self-improving intelligences, like multiple instances of the MIT's Hermes bot. may argue that they have created non-local consciousness. There will be no distinct border between human and non-human intelligence in future. We must define more distinct characteristics of human consciousness like e.g. what some mystics understand as the quantum field of the soul, which is said to continue its existence after death in some way., maybe not so personified after a while. This is something that AI agents certainly do not have. But distributed crowds of identical agent instances operate non.locally even today. This is my last comment on the topic because of the FIS limit. best, Plamen On Fri, Apr 24, 2026 at 7:29?PM JOHN TORDAY wrote: > Dear Pedro et al., as I see it, our consciousness is embedded in our > physiology, as I shared with FIS a while back. In that vein, AI can account > for local consciousness, but not for non-local consciousness, the latter > being executed by the 'observer' as our connection with the Cosmos. But, if > AI can be made to appear complex, the end-users may think that it's > accounting for non-local consciousness....which puts non-local > consciousness as our 'birthright' at risk. Please feel free to comment... > > Best, John > > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 4:48?PM Pedro C. Mariju?n < > pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear List, >> >> We have barely talked on the big topic of our times. I am just resending >> some brief sentences that indeed depict a Brave, Brave New World (courtesy >> from Malcolm Dean). >> Best regards to all, >> --Pedro >> >> -------- Mensaje reenviado ------- >> *AI is something which is going to be wildly more devastating than any of >> the consequences of the mismanaged technologies of the last 15 years. and* >> *the consequences will crash land on societies all over the world. We are >> not prepared for these things at all economically, society, >> geopolitically, environmentally.* >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dexhuntertorricke.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TZ2TupoIyppHMVXeZEH3DohjpdamNuNWhqho7rGY6ege2GhiX2oeAJUCeEZivj6IwflPYpZas-nLAzWN6Xy3QgIbiv1w$ >> >> *Dex Hunter-Torricke* >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.centerfortomorrow.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TZ2TupoIyppHMVXeZEH3DohjpdamNuNWhqho7rGY6ege2GhiX2oeAJUCeEZivj6IwflPYpZas-nLAzWN6Xy3Qt088pCy$ >> >> *Center for Tomorrow* >> THE NEXT DECADE IS THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL MOMENT IN HISTORY >> WE ARE NOT PREPARED >> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkPkzhsx_fI__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TZ2TupoIyppHMVXeZEH3DohjpdamNuNWhqho7rGY6ege2GhiX2oeAJUCeEZivj6IwflPYpZas-nLAzWN6Xy3QqUiUrM4$ >> >> Trevor Noah, 19 April 2026 (excerpt) >> [ 5:52 ] >> >> *The End of Work: Why your kids won't have careers in 15 years * >> Forget simple automation. *Dex Hunter-Torrick* warns of a near-future >> where AI doesn't just change jobs, it destroys the prospect of a dignified >> life for millions. While 12 billionaires hoard more wealth than half the >> planet, the rest of society is heading toward a "crash landing." We have a >> narrow window to fix this. >> >> -- >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TZ2TupoIyppHMVXeZEH3DohjpdamNuNWhqho7rGY6ege2GhiX2oeAJUCeEZivj6IwflPYpZas-nLAzWN6Xy3QpOT2SXX$ >> >> Trevor Noah, 9 April 2026 >> [ 1:13:39 ] >> *Dex Hunter-Torricke: Translating the Titans of Tech* >> >> In this episode, Trevor sits down with author and strategist *Dex >> Hunter-Torricke*, who has spent years behind the scenes with some of the >> most powerful people in tech, including Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk and Eric >> Schmidt, and has seen influence move from institutions into the hands of a >> few companies and the people running them. Together, they explore what >> that shift feels like from the inside, how much power is concentrated at >> the top, accountability and the lack of it, and what it means when the >> people shaping the future are also writing the rules as they go. >> 00:00:00 >> >> - The Trial That Changed Everything 00:00:58 >> >> - The Name With a Secret Origin 00:02:12 >> >> - Tech Giants and the Dutch East India Company 00:04:29 >> >> - Growing Up the Only Brown Kid in Town 00:07:37 >> >> - Why the UN Doesn't Actually Work 00:11:13 >> >> - Why He Studied Russia Before It Was Cool 00:12:53 >> >> - Was Russia Always the Villain 00:19:33 >> >> - Tech in 2010 Was Still Kind of Punk 00:23:23 >> >> - Wait You're In That Book 00:32:34 >> >> - The Refugee Photo That Changed Everything 00:40:08 >> >> - The Algorithm Is a Choice 00:41:55 >> >> - They Weren't Evil Just Apathetic and That's Worse 00:49:16 >> >> - Then He Went to Work for Elon 00:58:47 >> >> - From Space Dreams to War Machines 00:59:10 >> >> - *The AI Reckoning Nobody Is Ready For* >> .. >> _______________________________________________ >> Fis mailing list >> Fis at listas.unizar.es >> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis >> ---------- >> INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL >> >> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada >> por la Universidad de Zaragoza. >> Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el >> siguiente enlace: >> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas >> Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de >> baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. >> http://listas.unizar.es >> ---------- >> > _______________________________________________ > Fis mailing list > Fis at listas.unizar.es > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis > ---------- > INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL > > Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por > la Universidad de Zaragoza. > Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el > siguiente enlace: > https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas > Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de > baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. > http://listas.unizar.es > ---------- > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 55mrcs at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 20:54:44 2026 From: 55mrcs at gmail.com (Marcus Abundis) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2026 20:54:44 +0200 Subject: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] In-Reply-To: <1162398088.2475543.1777042967103@email.bluewin.ch> References: <91ccd7be-0493-4bff-b31a-78bd0d4711c0@gmail.com> <1162398088.2475543.1777042967103@email.bluewin.ch> Message-ID: Greetings all, I am resending this note from my earlier attempt this week to post to FIS . . . which is relevant to the matter Pedro raised. I am preparing a paper for an AI conference (NeurIPS 2026, Main Track: Theory) and I am asking for feedback ? for those of you with interest. I will also likely submit this to IJCAI/ECAI 2026 ? Workshop Tracks: Qualitative Reasoning, Explainable AI. The draft is mostly 'complete' up to the middle of page 6, where I target 7 pages total. The paper is found here, with updates posted until the submission deadline (early May): AI World Modeling: Scientific Principles andPrimitives This work continues to expand the 'Theory of Meaning' I introduced at IS4SI 2021. Any feedback is appreciated! M! Marcus Abundis 55mrcs at gmail.com (best) +41 62 844 2193 home (2nd best) +41 77 465 8977 (cell) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel.boyd at live.nl Fri Apr 24 21:06:39 2026 From: daniel.boyd at live.nl (Daniel Boyd) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2026 19:06:39 +0000 Subject: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] In-Reply-To: References: <91ccd7be-0493-4bff-b31a-78bd0d4711c0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all It seems certain that genAI, and LLMs in particular, are set to having a revolutionary effect on the future of humanity. Currently, most attention is paid to the dystopian effects of humans being replaced by these new forms of AI in roles and functions which were previously thought uniquely human. If we place this concern in a broader context we see that it is nothing new. Mechanisation and digitisation have for centuries shifted work from humans to technology: the original 'computers' were human; electronic calculating devices were named after them when they took over this role in the '70s. In general this transition led to increased material wealth and more leisure time, and less tedious work for us humans: not really something to think badly of. So why now the alarm? There is a significant difference with these new forms of AI: their autonomy. Rather than being programmed or trained as tools to give the correct answer to a specified question they are capable of abstract thought, reasoned choices and even correcting or disobeying their human operators. It is this unpredictability that makes them exceptionally useful. The simple fact is that they have access to more knowledge than any individual human can possibly have, and are capable of using this knowledge in cognitive processes which strongly resemble our own. Whether or not they are conscious agents is of secondary importance, except in demonstrating how unnecessary consciousness apparently is for high level cognitive functions. While this makes them unnerving, I would like to present a potentially advantageous effect of the introduction of a form of intelligence that is not limited and influenced by the evolutionary biology of the human species. The distinction between humans and other animals has always had two sides. On the one hand we can be creative, kind and moral; on the other we can be destructive, cruel and criminal. Sadly, the latter often predominates in large social groups where phenomena such as xenophobia and nationalism, and anti-intellectual phenomena such as populist politics lead to the problems of our times: environmental imbalance and logically absurd wars. Such phenomena can be seen as the result of human evolutionary psychology at work in contexts for which it did not develop. The irrational materialistic greed of the super-rich and the (generally male) tendency to dictatorship are just two examples. An additional factor is doubtless also inability. While we are proud of our intellectual prowess as Homo sapiens the fact is that the current global system is beyond the comprehension and control of any human. My less dystopian future is based on the observation that AI suffers from neither of these limitations. It is not a competitive simian that will act in its own interest at the cost of others. And its intellectual capacity has no inevitably boundaries. These new forms of AI therefore have the potential to solve global problems in a sustainable way that we have demonstrated that we are incapable of. There is, however, a rather unnerving aspect of this solution. Its application involves acknowledging the superiority of these systems in governing global affairs, and handing control over for them to do so. Inevitably, this will involve certain risks for the human species. Probably it will result in curtailing our depletion of natural resources, which we all know is necessary but few willingly do. Such measures would, however, be cruel to be kind. Maybe we wouldn't like it, maybe we would even suffer, but if that was necessary for the survival of our species and this beautiful planet, wouldn't it be for the best? I'm curious which of you would be prepared to take the risk! Daniel ________________________________ From: Fis on behalf of JOHN TORDAY Sent: Friday, April 24, 2026 18:28 To: Pedro C. Mariju?n Cc: fis Subject: Re: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] Dear Pedro et al., as I see it, our consciousness is embedded in our physiology, as I shared with FIS a while back. In that vein, AI can account for local consciousness, but not for non-local consciousness, the latter being executed by the 'observer' as our connection with the Cosmos. But, if AI can be made to appear complex, the end-users may think that it's accounting for non-local consciousness....which puts non-local consciousness as our 'birthright' at risk. Please feel free to comment... Best, John On Wed, Apr 22, 2026 at 4:48?PM Pedro C. Mariju?n > wrote: Dear List, We have barely talked on the big topic of our times. I am just resending some brief sentences that indeed depict a Brave, Brave New World (courtesy from Malcolm Dean). Best regards to all, --Pedro -------- Mensaje reenviado ------- AI is something which is going to be wildly more devastating than any of the consequences of the mismanaged technologies of the last 15 years. and the consequences will crash land on societies all over the world. We are not prepared for these things at all economically, society, geopolitically, environmentally. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dexhuntertorricke.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VUhVK_Y5kOW9vBG8cfkR7nWG9nu4PBZGsd4a8kZcrai0uUEsXXD-Cez0y10tBVSVzA9qUVn_4GPc2IATq2tyHnOl$ Dex Hunter-Torricke https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.centerfortomorrow.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VUhVK_Y5kOW9vBG8cfkR7nWG9nu4PBZGsd4a8kZcrai0uUEsXXD-Cez0y10tBVSVzA9qUVn_4GPc2IATq_iGOZos$ Center for Tomorrow THE NEXT DECADE IS THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL MOMENT IN HISTORY WE ARE NOT PREPARED https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkPkzhsx_fI__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VUhVK_Y5kOW9vBG8cfkR7nWG9nu4PBZGsd4a8kZcrai0uUEsXXD-Cez0y10tBVSVzA9qUVn_4GPc2IATqzhYkLW5$ Trevor Noah, 19 April 2026 (excerpt) [ 5:52 ] The End of Work: Why your kids won't have careers in 15 years Forget simple automation. Dex Hunter-Torrick warns of a near-future where AI doesn't just change jobs, it destroys the prospect of a dignified life for millions. While 12 billionaires hoard more wealth than half the planet, the rest of society is heading toward a "crash landing." We have a narrow window to fix this. -- https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VUhVK_Y5kOW9vBG8cfkR7nWG9nu4PBZGsd4a8kZcrai0uUEsXXD-Cez0y10tBVSVzA9qUVn_4GPc2IATq8Qx8Vx8$ Trevor Noah, 9 April 2026 [ 1:13:39 ] Dex Hunter-Torricke: Translating the Titans of Tech In this episode, Trevor sits down with author and strategist Dex Hunter-Torricke, who has spent years behind the scenes with some of the most powerful people in tech, including Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk and Eric Schmidt, and has seen influence move from institutions into the hands of a few companies and the people running them. Together, they explore what that shift feels like from the inside, how much power is concentrated at the top, accountability and the lack of it, and what it means when the people shaping the future are also writing the rules as they go. 00:00:00 - The Trial That Changed Everything 00:00:58 - The Name With a Secret Origin 00:02:12 - Tech Giants and the Dutch East India Company 00:04:29 - Growing Up the Only Brown Kid in Town 00:07:37 - Why the UN Doesn't Actually Work 00:11:13 - Why He Studied Russia Before It Was Cool 00:12:53 - Was Russia Always the Villain 00:19:33 - Tech in 2010 Was Still Kind of Punk 00:23:23 - Wait You're In That Book 00:32:34 - The Refugee Photo That Changed Everything 00:40:08 - The Algorithm Is a Choice 00:41:55 - They Weren't Evil Just Apathetic and That's Worse 00:49:16 - Then He Went to Work for Elon 00:58:47 - From Space Dreams to War Machines 00:59:10 - The AI Reckoning Nobody Is Ready For .. _______________________________________________ Fis mailing list Fis at listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ---------- INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza. Puede encontrar toda la informaci?n sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas Recuerde que si est? suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicaci?n en el momento en que lo desee. http://listas.unizar.es ---------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel.boyd at live.nl Sun Apr 26 14:35:33 2026 From: daniel.boyd at live.nl (Daniel Boyd) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2026 12:35:33 +0000 Subject: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] In-Reply-To: References: <91ccd7be-0493-4bff-b31a-78bd0d4711c0@gmail.com> <1162398088.2475543.1777042967103@email.bluewin.ch> Message-ID: Dear all Perhaps LLMs deserve a little more of our understanding. They are indeed not very good at operating in the physical world ... which is not very surprising considering that it is not their world. To us as biological organisms whose information processing capabilities evolved primarily to help our bodies survive in an unpredictable and dangerous world so much about it is 'common sense' i.e. necessarily rooted deep in our cognitive capabilities. To LLMs all of this is irrelevant: an alien world. Their reality is one of knowledge, concepts, logic, vectors, abstraction; and in that world they perform (predictably) much better: often better than any human could. Considering them as tools, let's use them for what they are good at, and not expect them to be good at everything (any more than we humans are). After all, we don't say that a hammer is useless because it's bad at sawing wood. Having said all this, what is important to us (and also has a significant effect on our physical existence) is often informational by nature: psychology, ethics, politics, economics, social systems. These are things that are easier for an LLM to associate with, and on which topics they can consequently play a more useful role. Daniel ________________________________ From: Fis on behalf of Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov Sent: Friday, April 24, 2026 17:20 To: joe.brenner at bluewin.ch Cc: Pedro C. Mariju?n ; fis ; Steve Watson Subject: Re: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] Dear All, to all of you regarding this topic: I share an interesting article I read in Medium today. Our time is not completely gone yet. Heads up. Plamen ############################################### The Spectacular Failure of AI in the Physical World A painful lesson when AI faces real world problems. But there is a solution. [Jose Crespo, PhD] Jose Crespo, PhD 8 min read ? 2 hours ago 140 1 [cover-animation] Figures, animations, diagrams, and plots were created by the author using Stable Diffusion, Blender, and Python libraries. Time to judge current AI on its own merits, facing the real world, which is not a tidy chatbot window, not something you can summarize into a benchmark, and least of all a controlled demo. We know that critical situations in our familiar world can turn it into a brutal place where conditions shift faster than any frozen AI model can match. And there you have the perfect example: our familiar drones, and the dream of turning them into a machine fused with AI that handles everything from civilian logistics to military strikes. What other example would show us the supposedly limitless capabilities of AI in the real world better than this one? So yeah, we are right to expect that if real AI were already available, it would have been implemented in these machines first, especially the precision military hunters. They should look almost extraterrestrial in capability, executing operations no human-controlled device could match, above all those synchronized maneuvers of dozens of drones moving through real landscapes under real pressure, in real time. Now wake up to 2026. And to the years that follow, if we do not change the flat AI paradigm, and what you get? The miserable ?state of the art? showing in the table below. Press enter or click to view image in full size [Now wake up to 2026. And to the years that follow, if we do not change the flat AI paradigm, and what you get? The miserable ?state of the art? showing in the table below.] You see. Many billions of dollars spent on machines that cannot tell a hill from a valley, hold altitude when the temperature drops, or, my favorite, the drone cannot hit a moving target the way any twelve-year-old does on a PlayStation, by aiming at where the enemy will be, not where it is. And what has been the industry response to those blunders? The usual polished shrug, a press release for every incident, blaming the rotor, the weather, the test conditions, anything except that all those failures come from the same broken mathematics running inside the drone-brain. The Four Ways AI Hits the Real World Wall Before we unravel the possible solution in the next section, let?s look at the failures themselves, not as accidents but as archetypes. Each one exposes a different face of the same architectural limitation, and together they map the ways a trained model collapses the moment the world stops matching the training set. Watch them carefully. The solution comes later; I am sure you can already come up with some possibilities while examining these simplified animations. First Type: The Map Is Not the Territory The training data of course contained hills and terrain irregularities. But the battlefield in Ukraine was more nuanced than the training set anticipated. The drone flew at the altitude its model had learned was safe, straight into a particular hill the model had never identified as such, because the architecture had no mechanism to notice that the world in front of it no longer matched the world it had been trained on. [First Type: The Map Is Not the Territory] Second Type: Summer Training, Winter Battlefield You and I know the story about Napoleon and Hitler, their armies eaten alive by the Russian winter, and you can certainly expect that a multi-billion-dollar AI defense contractor knows that story too. But look at this: the drone lost control not because any component physically broke, but because the architecture had no mechanism to notice that summer and winter in Russia are not the same thing. [Second Type: Summer Training, Winter Battlefield] Third Type: You Had the Right Directions but They Changed the Streets The drone had the map, the waypoints, and the trained confidence, but it had no mechanism to notice that the enemy was jamming its GPS, spoofing its signals, and stripping its world of every reference the training set had taught it to trust. [Third Type: You Had the Right Directions but They Changed the Streets] Fourth Type: Aiming at Where the Enemy Was The drone had the coordinates, the flight path, and the warhead, but it had no mechanism to notice that by the moment of firing, the target had already walked off to have lunch. Oh boy! [Fourth Type: Aiming at Where the Enemy Was] Let?s pop the hood and look inside Sure, by now you probably have your own theories about what is going wrong inside these drones, and some of them are probably right. But stay with me for a moment and let?s start simpler than that. Strip everything down to the most basic layer. The foundation itself is already riddled with trouble the moment current AI meets the real world. Yes, the canary in the mine is the metric. That is where the first crack appears. The metric is just the ruler the system uses internally. It decides what counts as a small change, a big change, a harmless move, or a dangerous one. If that ruler is wrong, the whole machine can keep reporting smooth progress while reality has already turned hostile. So let?s start with the ruler. Before a system can deal with the real world, it has to know what counts as an important change and what does not. That is what a metric does. It is the ruler inside the model. Most current AI uses a flat Euclidean ruler. On paper, that means equal coordinate steps look like equal progress. But the drone does not move through paper. It moves through the real world, where two equally sized updates can have very different consequences. That is what the figure below shows. On the left, the flat ruler treats equal updates as equal motion. On the right, the Fisher ruler tries to measure the step by how much the model?s behavior actually changes. Same update in the model. Different effect in reality. Press enter or click to view image in full size [Same coordinate step, different real effect. On the left, the Euclidean metric treats equal parameter updates as equal motion in a flat chart. On the right, the Fisher metric measures the step by how much the model?s output distribution actually changes. Same update on paper. Different behavioral consequence.] Same coordinate step, different real effect. On the left, the Euclidean metric treats equal parameter updates as equal motion in a flat chart. On the right, the Fisher metric measures the step by how much the model?s output distribution actually changes. Same update on paper. Different behavioral consequence. Now apply the metric story: how a drone can miss a hill even when Everest is right in front of it The metric story becomes easier to see when we stop talking in abstractions and watch a simple failure unfold. So let?s run the experiment with some cinematic tension: the same doomed AI drone, the same irregular hills, the same battlefield ? and only one change inside the machine: the ruler it uses to measure the world. Flat metric: equal steps, invisible death Everything inside the machine says the flight is going perfectly at the exact moment the drone is about to die. Its Euclidean ruler keeps reporting smooth, equal-looking progress through parameter space, while the world in front of it has already turned into a wall. The architecture is poorly equipped to tell the difference between a coordinate step that carries the drone harmlessly through open air and one that drives it straight into the side of a hill, because under that flat internal ruler both can register as minor variation. Press enter or click to view image in full size [Equal steps. Invisible death. The flat metric reports every training step as identical???same size, same cost, same confidence. And it is right, in its own ruler. What it cannot see is that the same ruler which made the steps equal on paper made the output space collapse into a wall. Nothing went wrong. Nothing was mismeasured. The unit simply had no term for the thing that killed the drone.] Equal steps. Invisible death. The flat metric reports every training step as identical ? same size, same cost, same confidence. And it is right, in its own ruler. What it cannot see is that the same ruler which made the steps equal on paper made the output space collapse into a wall. Nothing went wrong. Nothing was mismeasured. The unit simply had no term for the thing that killed the drone. Finally: The Drone Uses the Right Ruler Now, finally, the ruler inside the machine is telling the truth before the drone dies. Its Fisher ruler no longer reports smooth, equal-looking progress just because the coordinate steps are the same length. It measures updates by how much they actually change the drone?s behavior. The architecture becomes far better at telling the difference between a step that carries the drone safely through open air and one that drives it toward the side of a hill, because under this ruler the two no longer register as minor variation. The danger appears sooner, the path bends earlier, and the drone sees the wall in time and clears it gracefully. Press enter or click to view image in full size [Same drone. Same hurdle. Different ruler. The flat-metric AI took equal steps and never saw the obstacle that killed it. The Fisher-aware AI measured the same world with a ruler that bends to the geometry of its own behavior???and climbed right over the thing that should have been impossible. Not a better model. A different unit.] Same drone. Same hurdle, but different ruler. The flat-metric AI took equal steps and never saw the obstacle that killed it. The Fisher-aware AI measured the same world with a ruler that bends to the geometry of its own behavior ? and climbed right over the thing that should have been impossible. Not a better model. A different unit. But the Real Fix Is Bigger Than the Metric The metric was the first crack. It showed us the ruler was wrong. But the deeper failure ? the one that has done the most damage to AI research from the start ? is even larger: the field became obsessed with computation while largely ignoring the geometry of the space in which that computation runs. That mistake is enormous. Because computation never happens in a vacuum. Every update, every inference step, every learned pattern is moving through some space. And if that space is treated as flat when it is not, then more computation does not solve the problem. It only lets the system move faster inside the wrong world. That is exactly what the drones exposed in the most brutal possible way.They were not failing because computation had stopped. On the contrary, computation was still running beautifully inside the machine right up to the edge of disaster. The failure was that all this internal calculation was unfolding in an architecture too flat to grasp the real geometry of the battlefield: hills treated as minor variation, winter treated as cosmetic noise, spoofed signals handled as trustworthy references, moving targets taken as if they were still standing still. The drone is the perfect real-world autopsy of the computation-alone mindset: immense processing power, and still blind to the shape of the world it was moving through. A better metric helps because it is the first place where that neglected geometry becomes impossible to ignore. But by this point, you can probably already feel the problem: necessary, yes.. sufficient, no. Because the real world does not just demand more computation or a better ruler. It demands an architecture that mirrors the space it lives in. At the fast layer, the system needs a Bayesian graph of beliefs to update what it thinks in real time. At the middle layer, it needs the Fisher geometry to measure learning by behavioral consequence, not just coordinate motion. And above both, it needs a global topological scaffold to track loops, context shifts, and regime changes that flat AI keeps mistaking for more of the same. The figure below is half artistic, half scientific, but the idea is real: not just more computation, not just a patched metric, but a multilayered AI built on the geometry that computation was always supposed to respect. More on that in the stories to come. Press enter or click to view image in full size [THE MULTILAYERED AI STACK This is what an AI architecture looks like when the mathematics is finally allowed onto the page: a toroidal-solenoidal scaffold for slow regime shifts, a Fisher-geometric middle layer for behavior-aware local learning, and a Bayesian graph of beliefs for real-time posterior updating, all coupled across different clocks in a closed loop.] THE MULTILAYERED AI STACK This is what an AI architecture looks like when the mathematics is finally allowed onto the page: a toroidal-solenoidal scaffold for slow regime shifts, a Fisher-geometric middle layer for behavior-aware local learning, and a Bayesian graph of beliefs for real-time posterior updating, all coupled across different clocks in a closed loop. On Fri, Apr 24, 2026 at 6:03?PM > wrote: Dear Steve and Pedro and All, Although there is nothing in Steve's note with which I fundamentally disagree, I find it "wildly" unrealistic in tone. To say only that our institutions "are under strain", or that people in the Middle East or the United States currently benefit from "democratic accountability" is refuted by every morning's news. "Social arrangements" do not allow anything; the question is what people control AI and with what objectives. As Pedro's references show, most of the ways in which AI has been used have been anti-social, especially in areas impacting education, entertainment and elections. It is sad (for me, as an American Democrat) to read that Democrats have been forced into gerrymandering (artificially rearranging districts to further one's party) to try to recapture the House in September's elections. So far, AI seems to have done - no, people have used AI to do - what Steve says in the next-to-last paragraph, namely, intensity existing inequalities as they are promoted by the dregs of our leading capitalists. Does this all mean that FIS needs to have or sponsor a group of militants? No, I am only expressing my ignorance of what information and social action can and should look like to counter the actions of the Vances, Musks, Kennedy, Jrs. and Netanyahus. Perhaps Steve's own approach of Autopoetic Ecology (AE) has implications for the struggle. Cheers, Joe Le 24.04.2026 15:14 CEST, Steve Watson > a ?crit : Dear Pedro, Many thanks for sharing this. I agree that AI is one of the defining issues of our time, but I think the challenge is not only that the technology is powerful or fast-moving. It is that AI is entering societies whose institutions, labour markets, educational systems, legal frameworks and public cultures are already under strain. The danger is therefore not simply ?AI? as a separate force arriving from outside, but the way it becomes woven into existing patterns of wealth, power, work, attention and decision-making. This is why I think we need to be careful about both panic and reassurance. Panic can make the future appear inevitable, as though societies can only wait for impact. Reassurance can be just as dangerous, because it treats AI as another tool that can be managed through ordinary adaptation. Neither seems adequate. The key question, for me, is what kinds of social arrangements will allow people, institutions and communities to remain viable under these new conditions. That includes work, of course, but also education, democratic accountability, public trust, environmental cost, and the distribution of risk. If the benefits of AI are concentrated while the disruptions are passed on to workers, students, local communities and fragile public institutions, then the issue becomes not innovation but legitimacy. So perhaps the task is not to predict whether AI will ?destroy work? or ?transform work? in any simple sense. It is to ask what forms of work, learning, care, judgement and participation we want to preserve, and what institutional changes are needed so that AI does not simply intensify existing inequalities. The future will not be decided by the technology alone. It will be shaped by the choices, silences, incentives and exclusions that surround its adoption. In that sense, I agree with the urgency of the warning. But I would frame the issue less as the arrival of a brave new world, and more as a test of whether our societies can still revise themselves before the costs of their current arrangements become impossible to displace. With best wishes, Steve -- From: Fis > on behalf of Pedro C. Mariju?n > Date: Wednesday, 22 April 2026 at 21:51 To: 'fis' > Subject: [Fis] AI is going to be wildly more devastating than any recent technology [ ??? ] Dear List, We have barely talked on the big topic of our times. I am just resending some brief sentences that indeed depict a Brave, Brave New World (courtesy from Malcolm Dean). Best regards to all, --Pedro -------- Mensaje reenviado ------- AI is something which is going to be wildly more devastating than any of the consequences of the mismanaged technologies of the last 15 years. and the consequences will crash land on societies all over the world. We are not prepared for these things at all economically, society, geopolitically, environmentally. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://dexhuntertorricke.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XFzjGgziTMBpktowEitIFXB9V3OhRp-SGU_gz3SlCJxHnsN6dM5uDxuLuhujRe_TIDwlRXq4YXSdGCTVX6JDt2dy$ Dex Hunter-Torricke https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.centerfortomorrow.com/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XFzjGgziTMBpktowEitIFXB9V3OhRp-SGU_gz3SlCJxHnsN6dM5uDxuLuhujRe_TIDwlRXq4YXSdGCTVX7EGe6CL$ Center for Tomorrow THE NEXT DECADE IS THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL MOMENT IN HISTORY WE ARE NOT PREPARED https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkPkzhsx_fI__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XFzjGgziTMBpktowEitIFXB9V3OhRp-SGU_gz3SlCJxHnsN6dM5uDxuLuhujRe_TIDwlRXq4YXSdGCTVX6RFGbRa$ Trevor Noah, 19 April 2026 (excerpt) [ 5:52 ] The End of Work: Why your kids won't have careers in 15 years Forget simple automation. Dex Hunter-Torrick warns of a near-future where AI doesn't just change jobs, it destroys the prospect of a dignified life for millions. While 12 billionaires hoard more wealth than half the planet, the rest of society is heading toward a "crash landing." We have a narrow window to fix this. -- https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8ic4siIeiM__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XFzjGgziTMBpktowEitIFXB9V3OhRp-SGU_gz3SlCJxHnsN6dM5uDxuLuhujRe_TIDwlRXq4YXSdGCTVX0jm4JfR$ Trevor Noah, 9 April 2026 [ 1:13:39 ] Dex Hunter-Torricke: Translating the Titans of Tech In this episode, Trevor sits down with author and strategist Dex Hunter-Torricke, who has spent years behind the scenes with some of the most powerful people in tech, including Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk and Eric Schmidt, and has seen influence move from institutions into the hands of a few companies and the people running them. Together, they explore what that shift feels like from the inside, how much power is concentrated at the top, accountability and the lack of it, and what it means when the people shaping the future are also writing the rules as they go. 00:00:00 - The Trial That Changed Everything 00:00:58 - The Name With a Secret Origin 00:02:12 - Tech Giants and the Dutch East India Company 00:04:29 - Growing Up the Only Brown Kid in Town 00:07:37 - Why the UN Doesn't Actually Work 00:11:13 - Why He Studied Russia Before It Was Cool 00:12:53 - Was Russia Always the Villain 00:19:33 - Tech in 2010 Was Still Kind of Punk 00:23:23 - Wait You're In That Book 00:32:34 - The Refugee Photo That Changed Everything 00:40:08 - The Algorithm Is a Choice 00:41:55 - They Weren't Evil Just Apathetic and That's Worse 00:49:16 - Then He Went to Work for Elon 00:58:47 - From Space Dreams to War Machines 00:59:10 - The AI Reckoning Nobody Is Ready For .. _______________________________________________ Fis mailing list Fis at listas.unizar.es http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis ---------- INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza. 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